When Green Lanter became a villain

[Frontier]

I dont think they'd adapt ET. I mean, Kyle sold well and rivaled Hal in popularity and all that for many years, but Hal's been back longer than Kyle was the sole Lantern and even when Kyle was at the height of his popularity, most people agreed ET was an awfully executed story (even Kyle fans usually knew that ET was poorly done). I think if anything gets adapted it'll be from Johns' run; Blackest Night, Sinestro Corps War, etc.

I cant totally rule out a ET adaptation in one of those direct-to-DvD animated things, but even then I doubt they'd go in that direction. And those are pretty easy to ignore anyway.

I think it was Bruce Timm who said they would never have been able to do Parallax on GL:TAS like it was in the comic.

But I think the thing with ET is that now, with hindsight, it's connected to Green Lantern: Rebirth so I'm not sure if you could adapt one without the other now unless you were just doing it to get rid of Hal.

[EsotericFailures]

Given the lack of any type of Green Lantern stories outside media period, I don't think the most controversial and unpopular one will get adapted. Especially as the Emotional Spectrum is so common when GLs do show up that the story is pointless.

Whether it would have worked as well as Kyle Rayner, who can say, but getting back to the point, I don't think John wasn't used because he was black, because, again, we have the example of Guy Gardner, who I believe could have worked, also being passed over. I think John Stewart could have worked, too. There were characters on the market like Spawn, Shadowhawk, and Steel who are black, and I believe War Machine had his own series at that time, so it wasn't like black superheroes were unheard of or that nobody was doing them at the time.

Sure but those are more of the exception than the rule. Emerald Twilight was a huge risk, so DC then created a hero who was very safe and pandering like Kyle (not to say he's a useless character, he's been in plenty of great stories, but he is a very common comics archetype). Making John as the main GL would have been risky in that sense and also not new enough to get the readers they wanted.

[Ascended]

I also think you *could* adapt Emerald Twilight to some other media... but mostly because you could “fix” it by re-writing it to accommodate Johns’s additions to the mythos. I mean, if Young Justice wanted to do a version of it, I’ve got plenty of faith that Greg Weismann would make it work - the man made a one-armed Arsenal a cool idea.

Well okay, if you wanna throw Weisman at it, yeah it could be done well. I mean, Weisman.....man, someone just put that guy in charge of all things DC all the time, am I right!?

I think one of the (many) problems with ET was that it threw Hal straight into villain territory. Marz walked all that back quite a bit during his run with Kyle. Hal regretted how things had turned out and knew he had lost his way somehow, but couldn't figure out how to get back to the man he was. It made him very sympathetic; I remember the final page of a story where Hal had tried to steal the ring from Kyle and after failing (and probably fighting all his friends?) Hal's dozens of light years away, sitting on a asteroid, looking at earth and, because he's so far away, he's seeing light from years ago, watching himself when he was still a Lantern. It was a powerful moment (and cool use of basic science!) and I think if we had seen more of that sorta thing early on in ET, it *might* have gone over better. End of the day they were still making Hal a villain so I dont think any version of that story would be terribly popular, but it could've been done in such a way that it wasn't reviled as much as it was.

[Lirica]

I certainly wasn't able to read ET when it first came out, but when I did read it, I thought it was okay. I liked the potential of it more than the story itself. I do wonder what the story would've been like if Marz got the 6 issues he originally wanted. Might've been a bit less rushed, but probably still wouldn't have been just as disliked.

I liked Parallax, but I'm pretty biased. I vaguely knew who Hal was, but otherwise only knew John from the cartoon. I saw a panel from GL #0 that piqued my interest and then that was the first GL issue I read. I really liked the interaction between Parallax Hal and Kyle. Wanted more of that and read their other future interactions before finally going back to ET and the rest of Kyle's run.

[kingaliencracker]

It was such a terribly written, out-of character story. I don't know how people can defend it.

[j9ac9k]

Well okay, if you wanna throw Weisman at it, yeah it could be done well. I mean, Weisman.....man, someone just put that guy in charge of all things DC all the time, am I right!?

I think one of the (many) problems with ET was that it threw Hal straight into villain territory. Marz walked all that back quite a bit during his run with Kyle. Hal regretted how things had turned out and knew he had lost his way somehow, but couldn't figure out how to get back to the man he was. It made him very sympathetic; I remember the final page of a story where Hal had tried to steal the ring from Kyle and after failing (and probably fighting all his friends?) Hal's dozens of light years away, sitting on a asteroid, looking at earth and, because he's so far away, he's seeing light from years ago, watching himself when he was still a Lantern. It was a powerful moment (and cool use of basic science!) and I think if we had seen more of that sorta thing early on in ET, it *might* have gone over better. End of the day they were still making Hal a villain so I dont think any version of that story would be terribly popular, but it could've been done in such a way that it wasn't reviled as much as it was.

Totally agree, and I'm glad that they screwed up "Emerald Twilight" and "Zero Hour." If it actually had been a better story, Hal might still be Parallax today. (well, probably not with how many times the DCU has been rewritten, but we might not have gotten "Rebirth" the way we did or Hal back as a GL)

[godisawesome]

Well okay, if you wanna throw Weisman at it, yeah it could be done well. I mean, Weisman.....man, someone just put that guy in charge of all things DC all the time, am I right!?

I think one of the (many) problems with ET was that it threw Hal straight into villain territory. Marz walked all that back quite a bit during his run with Kyle. Hal regretted how things had turned out and knew he had lost his way somehow, but couldn't figure out how to get back to the man he was. It made him very sympathetic; I remember the final page of a story where Hal had tried to steal the ring from Kyle and after failing (and probably fighting all his friends?) Hal's dozens of light years away, sitting on a asteroid, looking at earth and, because he's so far away, he's seeing light from years ago, watching himself when he was still a Lantern. It was a powerful moment (and cool use of basic science!) and I think if we had seen more of that sorta thing early on in ET, it *might* have gone over better. End of the day they were still making Hal a villain so I dont think any version of that story would be terribly popular, but it could've been done in such a way that it wasn't reviled as much as it was.

Agreed. In a way, the speed, abruptness, and totality of the turn hurts it’s overall quality even to someone who isn’t that interested in Hal and finds the other Lanterns more interesting (like me.)

But yeah, Greg Weismann doing the story would make me salivate a bit just because of the quality of his work. And I’ll confess, Weismann maybe, *maybe* hinting at the arc for Young Justice is really the only reason I think an adaptation could work in any format. I wouldn’t trust the DCAU guys with it, and I don’t think it could ever be the centerpiece for a movie. But as just one more comic storyline that Weismann has looked at and evaluated as being something Young Justice could do to own take on?

I could see that.

[Restingvoice]

What was your reaction to Hal Jordan becoming a villain in the 90s??

After the fact, "stupid".

I agree with the early responder that said they should just retire him since he already starting to have white hair or better, make him a commander or mentor.

[SebastianS]

I was introduced to GL, and Hal Jordan in particular, around 1995-1996 with Green Lantern v3 #46, part of the Reign of the Supermen storyline/crossover, and in a collected edition. I was instantly hooked with the concept of an intergalactic peacekeeper with will/imagination based powers who just returned to his hometown to find it in ruins. I also dug the fact that he was an experienced superhero, with white hair and all, and I loved how he overcame Mongul.

The next time I saw a collected edition of Green Lantern (a few months later), it had the cover of Green Lantern v3 #53, featuring a rematch between Superman, Mongul, and Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner). I was curious and surprised at this new Green Lantern and that collection (plus the collected Zero Hour) was (personally) a great entry point to Green Lantern. Kyle Rayner quickly became "my" Green Lantern.

While I recognize, nowadays, that it might have been done poorly, I still think that Hal Jordan Parallax (before the bug) is a refreshing take on that character, full of potentials, and one of the best, if not the best, DC comic villain.

[Frontier]

Agreed. In a way, the speed, abruptness, and totality of the turn hurts it’s overall quality even to someone who isn’t that interested in Hal and finds the other Lanterns more interesting (like me.)

But yeah, Greg Weismann doing the story would make me salivate a bit just because of the quality of his work. And I’ll confess, Weismann maybe, *maybe* hinting at the arc for Young Justice is really the only reason I think an adaptation could work in any format. I wouldn’t trust the DCAU guys with it, and I don’t think it could ever be the centerpiece for a movie. But as just one more comic storyline that Weismann has looked at and evaluated as being something Young Justice could do to own take on?

I could see that.

Or probably just as a reason to bring Kyle in.

[Sodam Yat]

Maybe because John had failed to lead the franchise in COIE?

The same thing can be said for Hal Jordan. And the sales numbers from Mosaic seemed to be fine. There was no excuses, other than people at DC probably wasn’t confidence enough that sales were going to be an issue with a black lead.

I think you need to read my post again, I said DC never has top-tier black characters as interesting as Marvel. ThatÂ’s my point. I like a lot of Marvel black characters. I just donÂ’t find DC black characters that interesting.

What you’re saying here is very subjective. It doesn’t really matter whether you think black DC characters aren’t as interesting to you. You certainly don’t speak for everyone. What you said there does not really excuse on why people over in DC Comics shouldn’t push these black characters even more and give them chances. If you think that’s why DC doesn’t do anything with black characters, then you’re pretty much proving my point.

IÂ’m citing these character to tell you, when characters share the same name, maybe the most popular one is because he/she is the most popular one, not because he/she is white?

Of those characters you mentioned, Green Lanterns are far more interchangeable than those Marvel characters. It’s not like Luke Cage, Atlas, and Victor Alvarez still share the same alias/identity. There’s an unfortunate competition where John always had issues competing with equality with characters like Hal, Guy, and Kyle, since he had issues with writers preferring to write those characters in more important roles than John around the Geoff Johns era. I honestly don’t really understand why you never acknowledge that as a problem here.

Geoff Johns had done Mr Terrific, Black Panther well.

Did Geoff Johns write a Mr Terrific solo? Am I missing something? I doubt Geoff Johns had high control over at Marvel the way he does at DC. Geoff Johns has written an JLU episode that focus on John and Shayera. But the way he treated John as a character was night and day in the comics. He was just one of the major problems at DC.

He was also the only writer wrote good stories for Cyborg in new52.

No he hasn’t. No. He written Cyborg to have nothing to do when he’s in the Watchtower. Thanks to him, other writers carried the trend on what happened in the Justice League book and use him as just a transportation, since he had access to the mother box. Quite pathetic. And then you have complaints where he’s being compared to other other white males, because he’s mutilated.

So is that possible that he is not that fond of John because he just not that fond of John, not because of what you said “racial bias”?

I don’t think you really get it. When I say racially biased, I mean on more cases, a writer will easier identify themselves with that character. It’s just like how many black readers love black characters and how white readers really like white characters, same with Asians, etc. It just puts a character like John Stewart as a disadvantage, compared to white Green Lanterns on what we’ve saw when Johns was at the helm of the GL franchise.

No, Simon was treated like trash to serve the true star of the book, Jessica. If you ever read that book you will know.

Simon was heavily focused during his creation when Hal Jordan was the star of the book. He, then starred in his own book and been on the Justice League. When Simon seemed to not to be interested from other writers when Robert Venditti took over, Geoff Johns pitched the idea that Simon and Jessica to be in the Green Lanterns book. That’s a real good example of how to solicit a pitch specifically for a character at DC when writers doesn’t seem to be interested in a character.

And Jessica is already a more lively character than John. ThatÂ’s just my personal opinion.

That’s your opinion. I have no problems with that.

Uh, yeah, Priest killed off JohnÂ’s wife. Since you said people would identify themselves with same skin colors, shouldnÂ’t he give John some preferential treatment, like, not killing his wife?

When Rebirth started, I was the one who came up with the idea that an existing black writer to start writing John as the solution. And Priest was indeed one of my picks, before I found out he was the one who killed Kat. With that said, Priest did make a statement on where he and other writers shouldn’t be hired to write only a black character, because they’re black. But that is the way it is. On where the less diverse writers in DC, the less chances you’ll see said diverse character appearing in a solo. I agree with what Priest said and I wish it was that way. But the way things went, it seems like you have to get more diverse writers to write diverse characters specifically.

I think this question about Mosaic you already asked me longtime ago in another thread, and I answered that . Maybe you should go looking for it.

Yea, I don’t know what thread that was.

As an Asian girl, I wanna say, New Superman sucks. Again, thatÂ’s just my own point.

New Superman was brought up as an example to get a diverse writer to write a diverse character, since it’s harder to get a white writer to write that diverse character. It had nothing to do with your personal opinions on the character.

“Geoff Johns has pretty much brought that to himself because of his known mistreatment of the John Stewart character.” You sound like Geoff Johns deserves to be called a racist just because you think he didn’t do a comic character justice. Well, if I get you right, shame on you.

When you make these kind of bad decisions, fans are going to speculate things that are questionable.

Look at what you said, can you convince yourself with that? Is JohnÂ’s personality in the show same with the comics? Is WallyÂ’s personality the same? I love Wally, but you have to admit they made a lot of changes to the characters in the animation. For example, where did JohnÂ’s military background come from?

Both John and Wally’s character has been somewhat altered, since they can have an interesting GL/Flash dynamic. I’ve pointed out they said John was brought there because of his personality in the comics and not just his color.

Did Wally West get the treatment he deserves?

He certainly did not. And it’s plain out awful on how they treated him. At least he has a solo book coming out. Which I don’t even think that is enough to make up on how they screwed him over. But it looks like they are probably trying to pay back those mistakes they did with him.

Most characters are unluckily. But blaming one writer, making serious accusations because one characterÂ’s situation makes you unhappy is too much

Yea, that one character is one of the reason why I got into comic books. That character means a lot to me. And it hurts they treated him like this, despite his success in the shows.

Â… I hate what Snyder is doing with Sinestro. But I never said he discriminates against red-skin aliens. I just said he doesnÂ’t get the character, and he should let him go.

I’m totally fine with Snyder using Sinestro. And now he’s being used in one of DC’s top sellers.

IÂ’m not trying to convince you. YouÂ’re free to live in your own world. I just canÂ’t help speaking out when I see a fallacy.

Then there’s no reason to debate then, since we will never agree with each other.

[Sodam Yat]

Apologies for the derail of this thread, guys

[Dr. Ellingham]

It's a message board discussion about the most infamous Green Lantern story from the 1990s. So the conspiracy theories, cheerleading against the competing characters and the grinding of axes are, ironically, entirely on point.

[Hypestyle]

it was a mistake. But it was the 1990s. Bold decisions, shake things up, etc. And now Kyle is in kind of sort of, limbo.

[Tzigone]

Heroes shouldn't be turned into mass murderers, unless that was the intention of the original creators.

Thank you. I hate heroes going bad. Hate it. Didn't like it for any of them.

Deaths can good or bad. A good character going bad is pretty much always bad.

You can't just take any lead character like that and suddenly do something with them that directly contradicts everything you've known about them for decades,

Exactly. And, in a medium like comic books, with many writers, you are going to end up with a portion of the fanbase that (reasonably) says the problem is with the writer not writing the character well/in-character (or editorial mandate) rather than perceiving it as an appropriate and organic change of character.

There's truth in that. Kyle was created to be shameless wish fulfillment. Coincidentally, I was reading some of his comics last night, and it's pretty cheesy how Wonder Girl just happens to rather suddenly fall for him. There's nothing really wrong with that

While there are some nice moments between those two, the timing alone shouts "rebound" so hard I just couldn't support them. Also, I really find Kyle's scantily clothed projected women distasteful. I mean, I know it's not objectifying women (more womenifying objects), but I don't like it. I am a woman, so maybe that contributes, though.