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  1. #136
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    give the x-meh hydra cap for 2 years cowards
    heroine addict we love you come back

  2. #137
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    That's a surprising take from you.

    The problem for her is the powers that be. Those in charge during IvX and the start of Blue had her as a stupidly evil villain. Then the powers that be walked that back a bit. Now we have Rosenberg doing... something?
    Well fans will just complain if Emma is full villain and then it gonna crap all over story being told. Editorial foesn't have the force to do it.
    So at least do Emma bad enough to keep things interesting but good enough to fans not complain
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    If they don't join the team, they usually suffer villain decay where they become parodies of what they used to be. Again, we have villains or organizations that started off dangerous, the demoted to jokes.

    Omega Red
    Hydra
    Sabretooth
    Possibly Nova

    And in cases like this, joining the team is a promotion. I know many hated Invert Creed. But imo, given how much of a pussy he is as a villain, I though him becoming an anti-hero was a promotion. Least he could've gotten better developments that he sure as Hell doesn't get as a villain anymore.

    But even when villains join the team, they go back to antagonistic status quo & we stay in a sad loop or moving things forward only to get rewound.

    Another childhood quote. Tommy Pickles on why adults make them wear clothes.
    Maybe they put them on us so we can practice taking them off.

    Same with the X-Office and character development.
    We allow character development so we can get better at undoing it later.
    Gillen on his future plans for X-men complained about villains turning into heroes.
    Creed would be better as antihero since his villain career is over
    Last edited by spirit2011; 06-16-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The issue is that there's always a writer who wants to take things too far. That's how we got Magneto herding humans into ovens (requiring a massive retcon), or the Schism going from Offensive Tactics to Save Mutants (Cyclops) vs. Defensive Tactics (Wolverine) to Cyclops is Hitler and Wolverine is a Saint who we are not worthy to look upon.
    One of the reasons why I don't want Emma out of an X-men and/or in the HFC is precisely for that reason. If i's a risk even to Cyclops and leading the X-men, let alone for Emma, who was a villain in the (increasingly distant) past.

  4. #139
    Spectacular Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Gillen on his future plans for X-men complained about villains turning into heroes.
    Bunn complained about it also. He said if it was up to him, he would have taken Magneto full villain because "there are no good villains left".

    Maybe Wanda whispered "no more villains" and here we are.

  5. #140
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Bunn complained about it also. He said if it was up to him, he would have taken Magneto full villain because "there are no good villains left".

    Maybe Wanda whispered "no more villains" and here we are.
    Bunn also said he was in no rush to make Creed a villain again while planning to have him start a relationship with Monet.

    Far as Gillen, he's another writer that lost all points with me for his terrible, recon, Origins comics. So I can't take his opinion seriously. Lol

  6. #141
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Cassandra isn’t good because she has empathy, she just doesn’t want to exterminate with no remorse. I doubt we’ll be seeing good guy!Cassandra anytime soon.

    If there’s any franchise that shouldn’t have the “all our villains are turning heel” argument it should be the X-Men. They are sitting on a wealth of underused villains that always get shoved back in old chest so they can tease Magneto going rogue again for the 427463rd time. Don’t we still have the Children of the Vault, the MLF,
    Sean Garrison etc etc?

  7. #142
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    honey bunn is truly erik's stepdaddy along with lord claremont because he fathoms that curly moustache is the only, the single consistently good antag this franchise has
    heroine addict we love you come back

  8. #143
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Bunn complained about it also. He said if it was up to him, he would have taken Magneto full villain because "there are no good villains left".

    Maybe Wanda whispered "no more villains" and here we are.
    LOL yeah, every villain turneing into hero is a plague for X-men. If it was on specific situations it would be much better, not the decades long thing crap

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Bunn also said he was in no rush to make Creed a villain again while planning to have him start a relationship with Monet.

    Far as Gillen, he's another writer that lost all points with me for his terrible, recon, Origins comics. So I can't take his opinion seriously. Lol
    Clearly Bunn thinks Creed is a bad villain

  9. #144
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Create more villains it's not that hard. Villains who have switched over to the side of good have enriched the franchise.

    Claremont coming in and giving Magneto a rebirth made him the 3Dimensional character and made the X-Men less like care bears.

    Emma, Rogue have too.

    The hiatus on creating characters is what has hindered the franchise

  10. #145
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Create more villains it's not that hard. Villains who have switched over to the side of good have enriched the franchise.

    Claremont coming in and giving Magneto a rebirth made him the 3Dimensional character and made the X-Men less like care bears.

    Emma, Rogue have too.

    The hiatus on creating characters is what has hindered the franchise
    Villains have been created all the time, but the old ones have story and readers actually care about them

  11. #146
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Clearly Bunn thinks Creed is a bad villain
    I'd be inclined to agree with him. Lol His good version was the best Creed's been in ages.

    His return to villainy so far has been as bland, sad, and pathetic as I knew it would.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 06-16-2019 at 04:09 PM.

  12. #147
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Villains have been created all the time, but the old ones have story and readers actually care about them
    No they haven't. Mike Carey is the one who creat ed d villains. For the most part heroes have been fighting each other

  13. #148
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    No they haven't. Mike Carey is the one who creat ed d villains. For the most part heroes have been fighting each other
    Gillen created Unit

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    The Rogue Gallery starts dying when you have the overly sensitive PC nature of today going on. Villains that are "offensive" get watered down & turned into jokes so that they can be used without making fans uncomfortable. lol

    • I think someone mentioned Hydra fell victim to it. Some thought they were a play on Nazis, then they became stupidly evil imbeciles.
    • Omega Red was hinted to be a rapist I think. Heard this, but not sure. And on top of it I hear one story alluded to him as a pedophile. Too offensive, so they water him down to an easily beatable brute.
    • Sabretooth was nowhere close to PC back in his glory days, now he's a complete joke, starting with Austen making him a wannabe villain. He abused Birdy, now he's the Birdy in his relationship to Mystique.


    Probably more examples. But going further, we're also in the age where "Good Guys Automatically Win", and that can be fine for a family film and series. But in grittier stories, the villains need to WIN some. That's what makes them dangerous. If they always get beaten down in 2 sec & the heroes don't even see them as threats, , what's the point of even having them? Just show the heroes eating ice-cream in paradise for all of what trouble the villains cause. lol
    "PC culture is ruining villains" is a ridiculous new hot take. Good writers write good villains if you need to make your villain a rapist or a pedophile in order for your audience to find them despicable you've already failed and it's not outrageous to think that something like rape should be handled by with the utmost care.

  15. #150
    Fantastic Member Maestro 216's Avatar
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    X-Men are in dire need of fresh villains. I mean why not make something out of the IVX drama and give us some faction of Inhumans who want Mutants gone because they fear their kind will be on the verge of extinction.

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