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  1. #46
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Superman got along just fine for nearly fifty years with his parents dead. I don't see what's so necessary about having them around. It doesn't differentiate him from Batman, like he's already really different from Batman. But I'm sure after three pages of long posts there's little I can say that hasn't been said, so I'm just going to throw my hat in the ring and vote for "keep 'em dead."
    Post-Crisis nostalgia. For all the talks of Silver Age nostalgia, and indeed over the years they have brought a good deal of that back too, to me, DC's collective hearts still live in the post-Crisis era. Especially with Superman.

    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    The Kents are to Superman what Alfred is to Batman. They are his link to humanity. It's stupid to kill them off. When Superman was most successful was during Dan Jurgens early 90s Death of Superman period, the Kents are alive. And for those who say he needs tragedy, hello....HIS WHOLE PLANET BLEW UP lol, that's plenty of tragedy.
    Its not stupid at all. Its why it worked for half a century. The fallacy in your argument is the idea that them being gone destroys his link to humanity. It does not. Keeping them alive in the post-Crisis era did not create something that Superman never had before then. His love and link to humanity is something they instill upon him by raising him. So its there already. Its permanent. And its not about tragedy. Its about lessons learned in regards to what he can and can't do from an early age, and more than anything else, its a positive inspiration going forward.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-16-2019 at 11:17 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  2. #47
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    His parents being alive or at least one of them also worked just fine for a significant amount of time.

  3. #48
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Sure it did. History has proven you can do both things. If they wanted to, I'm sure they could also get away with reversing it all and killing Martha but keeping Jonathan. You can work these things, I'm not suggesting you can't despite my posts naturally reflecting my preference. But the length of time they were alive in the post Crisis era is more often than used as evidence as to why they should be alive. That it worked just fine before too, much longer in point of fact, is a rebuttal to that argument.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-16-2019 at 11:21 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    The Kents are to Superman what Alfred is to Batman. They are his link to humanity. It's stupid to kill them off. When Superman was most successful was during Dan Jurgens early 90s Death of Superman period, the Kents are alive. And for those who say he needs tragedy, hello....HIS WHOLE PLANET BLEW UP lol, that's plenty of tragedy.
    No way are they the equivalent to Alfred, who has been a near constant since his introduction. They and the Els both are equivalent to the Waynes.

    They are are naturally his first link to humanity, but far from his only ones. And they don't need to be alive for him to have his morals and love his adoptive home. They instilled that in him at a young age and he is a fully formed person who can hold onto his humanity his own damn self. Lois is a vital link as well, but he similarly doesn't need her and her alone to be a hero who loves humanity.

    Are we sure about the 90s? Because while his popularity has fluctuated, and I'm sure that was his most successful post-Crisis period, I don't think he's ever regained the heights of popularity he had in the Silver Age...where the Kents were dead. In fact, there isn't a lot of evidence that toning him down and making him "more human" (whatever that means) has benefited his popularity, and probably has done the opposite. And while the planet blew up he, again, he was a baby and didn't remember it. In Byrne's version, he doesn't discover his alien heritage until his final year in high school, he doesn't grow up feeling different or having any adversity in that regard. And his parents were dead during the most whimsical and outlandish period of DC comics ever. It's a modern tendency to view dead characters as an inherently one note, dark and tragic thing instead of just being part of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Post-Crisis nostalgia. For all the talks of Silver Age nostalgia, and indeed over the years they have brought a good deal of that back too, to me, DC's collective hearts still live in the post-Crisis era. Especially with Superman.
    DC (and Marvel) is driven by a lot of nostalgia period, and the decisions take varying degrees of forms and success. But fans are in love with their own nostalgia too, and the post-Crisis era is put on as much of a pedestal around these parts as the Silver age one. Common arguments against reinstating old ideas can basically be boiled down to "but that's not how it was in the post-Crisis era, a.k.a the era I grew up reading and it's the only way that works" instead of the older ideas being inherently flawed/unusable. Which is basically understandable human nature as a fan no matter which side of the debate you land on (wanting the older ideas reinstated also boils down to "I just like the old stuff better").

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    The Kents are to Superman what Alfred is to Batman. They are his link to humanity. It's stupid to kill them off. When Superman was most successful was during Dan Jurgens early 90s Death of Superman period, the Kents are alive. And for those who say he needs tragedy, hello....HIS WHOLE PLANET BLEW UP lol, that's plenty of tragedy.
    Krypton blowing up isn't a tragedy for Superman any more than any other mass casualty disaster. He has no personal connection to the place, it was gone before it's existence ever registered on his mind. It's destruction isn't in spite of Superman's efforts to stop it. Hr might regret the loss of life, the same way most of us regret hearing about a plane crash. It's sad but at the end of the day nothing that touches us on a personal level. It's a mass scale version of hearing about that relative who died before you were in kindergarten, or how the house you were born in but really don't remember has been torn down.

    On the other hand losing people who have actually impacted his life daily for as long as he can remember. Losing them when he has all these powers to save other people, but is helpless to stop death this time. That is a whole different ball game.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    I thought that the KENTS were Clark family now(clark, lois and the kid)..

    But I read about that in newsarama too.

    I am not in favour or against that..
    Last edited by adrikito; 06-16-2019 at 02:02 PM.

  7. #52
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Kal-El has got to have agency of his own, and while it's fine if Ma and Pa stick around- using them as a constant source of inspiration for him is a major detriment.

    Clark needs to inspire himself, and gain advice and worldviews from everyday people...not just the kindly farm couple who found him.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  8. #53
    Fantastic Member Midnighter's Avatar
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    I want them around for the simple reason that I like them as characters. I like them more as supporting cast than Perry or Jimmy. I also want to see them interact with Jon. Conner I feel needs at least Martha even if Clark technically doesn't.superboy.jpg
    Last edited by Midnighter; 06-16-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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  9. #54

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    I don't care one way or another. The thing is, clark is a father now.old enough to take care of himself, his problems and his family. He should be the one filling in the shoes of pa kent,now.being all wise and giving life lessons to his son, other sidekicks and rookies, be a moral and spiritual support. But, i am sorry to say as of late he hasn't filled in his shoes, especially in current run. He is still the guy that is written to "screw up his family". So, either allow Clark to mature enough to be the jor el and pa kent to his family and people that look upto him or return the genuine article. So, that there is a good "wise father" and "loving mother" archetype in the story.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    I want them around for the simple reason that I like them as characters. I like them more as supporting cast than Perry or Jimmy. I also want to see them interact with Jon. Conner I feel needs at least Martha even if Clark technically doesn't.
    To be honest, given where Conner seems to be at emotional right now under Bendis, I don't think living back on the farm would make much sense. Before he left for gemworld, he left his secret identity and said he was done letting his DNA and conventional rules dictate how he functions anymore. Then in the latest issue he talked about how he waited for his friends to get him because being with them was when he felt most like himself.

    Even if Martha comes back, I don't think signs point to him going to live on the farm with her. Seems more likely that at least a few of the members will move in together. At least that's what I think at the moment.
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  11. #56
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    I have a feeling they'll show up somehow, but not come back. Personally, I'd love to see them back - I enjoy them as characters much more than as a past memory (although that works well, too). Especially in this day and age, with people living longer, etc. I think Clark/Lois/Jon can certainly meet new people to add to the cast and still have Ma and Pa in the mix from time to time.

    But I think I'd prefer it if they're either found to be alive or brought in now, as opposed to them always having been known to be alive. Kinda like Jor-El, it opens up more story opportunities that way. Also makes the first meeting with Jon that much more powerful.

    Any chance that Conner talking about Pa is more about memories brought in somehow from Superman instead of his own? Probably not, but just thought of that.
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  12. #57
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Any chance that Conner talking about Pa is more about memories brought in somehow from Superman instead of his own? Probably not, but just thought of that.
    The working theory that I've seen so far is that Conner went to Gemworld before Flashpoint. As we've seen in Young Justice, not only is Gemworld aware of the continuity shifts brought on by Earth-0 changing (thus changing the rest of the Multiverse), but their soundings are affected by it--rather violently--in real time. So, Conner could've 'weathered' the storm of a reboot on Gemworld, thus he remembers Ma and Pa.

    But it's all really up in the air right now (intentionally) because Tim didn't remember Conner or YJ, but Cassie did, so it's hard to say. Maybe she took her grandfather's offer eventually, and her new found abilities allowed her the memories? We still don't know her deal quite yet.
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  13. #58
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    The working theory that I've seen so far is that Conner went to Gemworld before Flashpoint. As we've seen in Young Justice, not only is Gemworld aware of the continuity shifts brought on by Earth-0 changing (thus changing the rest of the Multiverse), but their soundings are affected by it--rather violently--in real time. So, Conner could've 'weathered' the storm of a reboot on Gemworld, thus he remembers Ma and Pa.

    But it's all really up in the air right now (intentionally) because Tim didn't remember Conner or YJ, but Cassie did, so it's hard to say. Maybe she took her grandfather's offer eventually, and her new found abilities allowed her the memories? We still don't know her deal quite yet.
    Good calls all around on that. That would make a lot of sense, and if he and Clark get to talk, it'd make for some pretty cool character conversations.
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  14. #59
    Fantastic Member Midnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    To be honest, given where Conner seems to be at emotional right now under Bendis, I don't think living back on the farm would make much sense. Before he left for gemworld, he left his secret identity and said he was done letting his DNA and conventional rules dictate how he functions anymore. Then in the latest issue he talked about how he waited for his friends to get him because being with them was when he felt most like himself.

    Even if Martha comes back, I don't think signs point to him going to live on the farm with her. Seems more likely that at least a few of the members will move in together. At least that's what I think at the moment.
    I see what you're saying but he's been on Gemworld farming and quoting Pa Kent and had the little girl named Martha.

    The Kents might not presently mean much to Jon and they shouldn't since he's never met them, but they clearly mean a lot to Conner who remembers being raised by them.

    I'm not saying he goes back to Smallville to live permanently. But with flight and super speed that isn't a problem.

    And Bends is the one who keeps dropping these hints. He doesn't seem to do this with Clark. He does it with Conner.

    Conner needs more than just the YJ4 the same way Clark needs more than just the League.
    Last edited by Midnighter; 06-17-2019 at 01:51 AM.
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  15. #60
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    I see what you're saying but he's been on Gemworld farming and quoting Pa Kent and had the little girl named Martha.

    The Kents might not presently mean much to Jon but they clearly mean a lot to Conner. And Bends is the one who keeps dropping these hints. I'm not saying he goes back to Smallville to live permanently. But with flight and super speed that isn't a problem.
    Well, obviously I don't mean he wants nothing to do with the Kents or the Kent name. He doesn't resent it or anything even remotely like that. He still clearly loves and respects the name, what it means, and the people who share it with him. But, as his issue showed, he's obviously done doing things like being "mild mannered" Conner Kent. So, no, I'm not saying he wouldn't want Ma (and the rest of his family) to be in his life, and yeah he can always visit.

    An alternate thought I had: suppose Young Justice lives on the Kent under Ma's roof ala Ultimate Spider-Man with Peter, Bobby, Johnny, Gwen, and Kitty? Separates them from the Teen Titans rather nicely while really going for the family vibe Bendis clearly wants to highlight. My only trepidation with thinking this is likely is the fact that Conner is clearly done with the secret identity game as he used to play it.

    Maybe the idea going forward is that Conner looks at the new rebooted universe as a second chance for him to reinvent what being Conner Kent means when he's not flying?
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