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  1. #106
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    I don't know how easily recognisable Jon is.
    He's a young dark haired boy with Superman's powers, wearing red, blue, and a cape, and the S shield plastered on his chest, and he's called Superboy. If a casual reader passes this comic by on the stand and sees that, they at the very least know the deal on a conceptual level: this is related to the widely known (Superman's notoriety is inarguable, obviously) Superman character. Superman's S is a literal brand recognized world wide. The next question is "whoa, ok, who's that kid?" and the answer is--and here's the beauty of it all--"he's Superman's son." Three simple words with all of the gravity in the world.

    Hell, he's even named after Superman's dad, so if you have even a passing familiarity with the brand it'll be easy to remember. DC created Jon for marketability. I remember Jugens saying in an interview that he came to DC with the rough idea for a son for Superman, and DC gave him the name and the rest. They knew damn well what they were doing. Even if your casual passer-by doesn't know much (or anything) else outside of Superman related TV and movies, Jon, no matter his form, is completely accommodating of the strength of his super simple concept. No eyes glazing over at wiki entries while just trying to understand what he is. Jon is Superman's son. That is the beginning middle and end of it of the entry point into the character.

    The kid's recognizablity is inbuilt even if the perspective fan doesn't know it yet. Jon is the definition of overt marketing in mainstream comics.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 06-18-2019 at 12:59 AM.
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  2. #107
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    He's a young dark haired boy with Superman's powers, wearing red, blue, and a cape, and the S shield plastered on his chest, and he's called Superboy. If a casual reader passes this comic by on the stand and sees that, they at the very least know the deal on a conceptual level: this is related to the widely known (Superman's notoriety is inarguable, obviously) Superman character. Superman's S is a literal brand recognized world wide. The next question is "whoa, ok, who's that kid?" and the answer is--and here's the beauty of it all--"he's Superman's son." Three simple words with all of the gravity in the world.

    Hell, he's even named after Superman's dad, so if you have even a passing familiarity with the brand it'll be easy to remember. DC created Jon for marketability. I remember Jugens saying in an interview that he came to DC with the rough idea for a son for Superman, and DC gave him the name and the rest. They knew damn well what they were doing. Even if your casual passer-by doesn't know much (or anything) else outside of Superman related TV and movies, Jon, no matter his form, is completely accommodating of the strength of his super simple concept. No eyes glazing over at wiki entries while just trying to understand what he is. Jon is Superman's son. That is the beginning middle and end of it of the entry point into the character.

    The kid's recognizablity is inbuilt even if the perspective fan doesn't know it yet. Jon is the definition of overt marketing in mainstream comics.

    I would argue that DC created Jon because they were hoping to emulate Damian's success.

    A dark haired kid with the superman Logo that sounds like Conner as well. Everything you mention for Jon could be applied to Conner aside from the being Superman's kid. How big a draw that is is debatable seeing that what people seemed to complain about is the end of his friendship with Damian leading me to think that might be why Supersons is so beloved. The dynamic and the personality and the vibe not their DNA.

    I'm not saying that Jon isn't those things you mention just that DC already had someone who fit those things, who was more widely known and had greater potential to reach a wider audience.

    Conner is in YJ, DC Animated movies and is coming soon to Titans. he is tried and tested. That fan base already love and accept him more so than they do Jon. I feel Conner was the smarter choice to be the face of that franchise.

  3. #108
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    I don't get the argument against Jon at times. Batman has a long string of "sons" who were his side kick, the current of whom is biologically his but Jon is an anomaly that should exist because Conner is more popular?

  4. #109
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    Welp, there goes Jon.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  5. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    I don't get the argument against Jon at times. Batman has a long string of "sons" who were his side kick, the current of whom is biologically his but Jon is an anomaly that should exist because Conner is more popular?
    People just want and prefer jon to have good relaunch of the supersons than shipping him off to a legion and might have seldom interactions with his present day friends and family. If this book doesn't work, then jon might be in trouble as well. It is a worrying thought, conner on the other hand can take it.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    People just want and prefer jon to have good relaunch of the supersons than shipping him off to a legion and might have seldom interactions with his present day friends and family. If this book doesn't work, then jon might be in trouble as well. It is a worrying thought, conner on the other hand can take it.
    I was talking about Jon as a whole not aged Jon.

  7. #112
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    DC isn't going to see it that way. They put out a good book with the Super Sons, and it's not selling. They're not going to care about excuses like "oh, its a flashback so absolutely nobody cares about it!" If Jon had as much support as he appears to, and people were really as upset over the aging as they appear to be online, those people would be grabbing the title off the shelves as the "last gasp."

    Jon's only been around what, two-three years? He's not a staple, he's an experiment in bringing a Silver Age "Elseworlds" style idea to the mainstream market (just like Clark-Diana dating was). They're not going to care or be as invested in Jon as the fans are. And if the only book in mainstream direct market sales where he's still ten isn't selling that's just going to tell DC that ten-year-old Jon doesn't have the support the internet makes it look like he has. If all of Jon's fans decided to drop Super Sons because of the age-up, they're just cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

    Ive been buying the book and I dont even think Clark should have a kid (I do like Jon though, even if he shouldnt exist). Where's everyone else?
    Well there is nothing like a book cancellation and then what some may see as a consolation prize maxi series to take the wind out of fans sails. To be honest I'm surprised that the suits at DC haven't noticed the correlation between a book being cancelled and a sudden fall in sales. They almost have to know that its a death sentence for a book's sales as soon as a cancellation is announced and that a certain segment of fans are going to feel like they've had the rug pulled from under them. If there are fans that feel that way then why should they even bother supporting what is basically a bone that DC threw at them just to shut them up? I don't see a reason too. Same thing happened with Batwing when it transitioned from David to Luke, although that book wasn't cancelled. They basically ran off a lot of the fans of the original book in the same way so the book, which wasn't lighting the charts on fire before that point mind you, actually lost sales instead of the increase they were hoping for by making it more of a Gotham centered book. You'd think they would have learned from that scenario but I guess not.

    I'm still buying the book because I like Jon and its the only place to get the kid that I enjoyed reading about the adventures of since Bendis aged him up but I initially wasn't going to bother with it until the trades came out because I was that angry about this whole thing. Sales would be much better if this was actually connected in some way to what Bendis is doing, if fans felt it was important to keep up with and if they didn't feel like DC pulled the rug out from under them with the way this was handled.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 06-18-2019 at 08:19 AM.
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  8. #113
    Fantastic Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    This is why I like reading old comics - at least I know before I get attached that the character I like is going to disappear/die.

    Lois & Clark get another kid super-aged and and possibly written-out by DC. Bleh. Of course, I also dislike how Bendis writes Lois, so there's that, too. After reading someone else's theory I got all paranoid he'd publicly divorce Lois & Clark (since she was photographed kissing Superman), too. But hopefully that's really just my paranoia. I don't know, though, since I quit reading.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 06-18-2019 at 08:16 AM.

  9. #114
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    This is why I like reading old comics - at least I know before I get attached that the character I like is going to disappear/die.

    Lois & Clark get another kid super-aged and and possibly written-out by DC. Bleh. Of course, I also dislike how Bendis writes Lois, so there's that, too. After reading someone else's theory I got all paranoid he'd publicly divorce Lois & Clark (since she was photographed kissing Superman), too. But hopefully that's really just my paranoia. I don't know, though, since I quit reading.
    Regardless what you are hearing, Jon is not disappearing or dying, it’s the opposite, he’s got a lot more attention on him now than when he was a kid.

  10. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Regardless what you are hearing, Jon is not disappearing or dying, it’s the opposite, he’s got a lot more attention on him now than when he was a kid.
    Wally west got attention in heroes in Crisis too. Attention for all the wrong reasons is something a new character like jon could do without.

  11. #116
    Fantastic Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Regardless what you are hearing, Jon is not disappearing or dying, it’s the opposite, he’s got a lot more attention on him now than when he was a kid.
    Everyone here is talking about whether he'll join the Legion. I like him with is family and growing up slow-style. We've skipped a third of his life, or so it seemed when last I read. That doesn't work for me. His existence is of a great deal less interest to me if he skips straight from Lois & Clark's prepubescent kid to a teenager in the far-distant future. Either we've skipped years and years of growth and development, or he's a 17ish year-old who hasn't changed emotionally/mentally since he was 11. Neither of those work for me. It's the family-dynamic, and the friendships with Damian and Kathy that were of most interest to me. If he switches to being that old overnight he's essentially an all-new character with the same name.

  12. #117
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    I would argue that DC created Jon because they were hoping to emulate Damian's success.
    Not something you need to argue with me because I totally agree.

    Everything you mention for Jon could be applied to Conner aside from the being Superman's kid. How big a draw that is is debatable seeing that what people seemed to complain about is the end of his friendship with Damian leading me to think that might be why Supersons is so beloved.
    But that whole "he's Superman's son" is the biggest part of it. And we're talking about how marketable and recognizable he can be to the casual passer-by. The ability for someone to pass by a comic with either version of Jon Kent on it and ask "gee, who's that Superman-lookin kid?" and get the three word reply of "he's Superman's kid" can't be overstated. He's also again easily remembered by name for any person with just a passing familiarity of the brand.

    It's not all that surprising that DC OKed the use of Jon on this Legion book. I'd even wager that using him to help reestablished the Legion likely crossed their minds even before Bendis. Johns, one of the Legion's biggest fans, had a pretty sizable hand in ushering Jon into the DCU after all. However, as Jim Lee said early Rebirth, the creators that they wanted for the job wasn't quite free yet. We now know that was apparently it may have been Bendis because it's confirmed that Lee did pitch the Legion to him before he was able to move to DC.

    I'm not saying that Jon isn't those things you mention just that DC already had someone who fit those things, who was more widely known and had greater potential to reach a wider audience
    But no one that fits the most important and easily marketable thing I mentioned.

    Conner is in YJ, DC Animated movies and is coming soon to Titans. he is tried and tested.
    Sure, but even then, I recall the fan base's strongest reaction to Conner in media outside comics being "oh wow, so they called him Superman's son?" Then when eventually the pulled back on that, the character of Superman in the show is still getting flack for that till this day. The three words "he's Superman's son" has inherent power and meaning over a casual fan. A character being able to own up to those three words completely without any "buts" or "alternate dimension this or that" can not be overstated. Jon simple is those three words.

    I think they're trying to build a strong and sustainable brand in the Legion, and they likely don't want a character more widely associated with another team's brand in other popular media obstructing that. Jon is a character who has the strength of his inherently recognizable concept and the Superman S, and he's someone they can really build this thing alongside because the casual audience has no other expectation associated with him. Again, the kid is an incredibly smart bit of marketing all around.
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Regardless what you are hearing, Jon is not disappearing or dying, it’s the opposite, he’s got a lot more attention on him now than when he was a kid.
    Are you kidding? He got a ton of attention when he was a kid (bi-monthly Superman, bi-monthly Action Comics, Super Sons, stories in DC holiday specials, crossovers). It's very unlikely he'll get nearly as much now other than the continued cries of his fandom to make him a kid again.
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  14. #119
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Regardless what you are hearing, Jon is not disappearing or dying, it’s the opposite, he’s got a lot more attention on him now than when he was a kid.
    Not really no.

  15. #120
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    "He is getting more attention now than he was a kid"

    No...he really isn't...at all. If anything this is a demotion to a guaranteed to fail comic that hasn't really been successful since the 80s and won't ever become popular again because you shove the most reviled version of a character whose fan base straight up won't buy because of the age up

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