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  1. #121
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason white reborn View Post
    "He is getting more attention now than he was a kid"

    No...he really isn't...at all. If anything this is a demotion to a guaranteed to fail comic that hasn't really been successful since the 80s and won't ever become popular again because you shove the most reviled version of a character whose fan base straight up won't buy because of the age up
    Legion is getting a big push. He will still appear in Superman, heís getting a guest appearance in Loisís book. Plus heís starting to show up in other media.


    I get you guys have a hard time accepting teen Jon, butís it clear Bendis still have big plans

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Legion is getting a big push. He will still appear in Superman, he’s getting a guest appearance in Lois’s book. Plus he’s starting to show up in other media.


    I get you guys have a hard time accepting teen Jon, but’s it clear Bendis still have big plans
    The other media appearances have been quick references at best, they have nothing to do Bendis, and they mostly happened before Bendis's version of Jon really came on the scene.

    And the other stuff you described, well, that's way less then what we had been getting before Bendis took over Superman and not like its a version of him that's popular.

    Bendis can have all the plans he wants, it doesn't make Jon's situation an improvement nor does it mean people are going to be happy with whatever Bendis's is doing.
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  3. #123
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    The other media appearances have been quick references at best, they have nothing to do Bendis, and they mostly happened before Bendis's version of Jon really came on the scene.

    And the other stuff you described, well, that's way less then what we had been getting before Bendis took over Superman and not like its a version of him that's popular.

    Bendis can have all the plans he wants, it doesn't make Jon's situation an improvement nor does it mean people are going to be happy with whatever Bendis's is doing.
    I agree fanboys that can’t accept a job story unless he is a kid probably won’t be happy, for people with a open mind, I do think there is a lot of potential

  4. #124
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Meh nevermind
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 06-18-2019 at 12:32 PM.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I agree fanboys that can’t accept a job story unless he is a kid probably won’t be happy, for people with a open mind, I do think there is a lot of potential
    It is not just about him being a kid. What is the point in reading a character in name only? Jon since his return has been no fun to read. Even, Bendis writes the kid better than adult version. We don't know what the adult version is about. What his personality is? What makes him angry, sad.. Etc? It's like a whole new character. Bendis says he is the same kid. But it doesn't feel like it. If that is the case, would jon remember his adventures in bizarro world or his friendship with kathy?does he still have the softspot for Hamilton?does he think of Superheroic adventures as he did in the past? Does he have any psychological damage from being tortured inside a volcano?

    I know, i am making the "not my jon kent" argument. But, bendis needs to make it clear what the old jon is about? All these issues all we got are a rushed backstory that lacked any depth and a caricature happy-go-lucky personality.

  6. #126
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    bendis needs to make it clear what the old jon is about? All these issues all we got are a rushed backstory
    I feel like no matter where you stand on the Jon Kent age up, this is a fairly universal opinion, and something we all would like to see addressed to some degree or another. And as I've said before, I think it was a bad move not to push for a mini of some sort that chronicles his adventures after Man of Steel issue 6 and before Superman issue 6. I grant Bendis that it's only been 2 issues since Jon finished his story, and we're heading for something big for him in only 3 issues, but what I wouldn't give for a classic Bendis talking heads issue right now, honestly lol

    It's also possible that I'm just being impatient because it's something I'm fascinated with.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 06-18-2019 at 01:39 PM.
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  7. #127
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    Has something changed in recent times. Looks like people are saying his pretty much confirmed for getting stuck in the future.
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  8. #128
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm curious if there might be a plot point where he has to stay for a while for some reason, but that's because of the way the solicitations were worded. But that's not guarantee or anything, its pure speculation at this point.
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  9. #129
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I've heard your ideas on Clark and family before as this concept that it's just not something for him, and I agree, but only to the degree that it's not easy (but in no way shape or form impossible) for him. And I think the argument is flawed because of the nature of decades long serialized publication and the nature of Superman as a brand before now. But I do think friction in his family situation is something conceptually consistent that goes beyond guys in suits wanting Superman to leave his cousin in the care of strangers.
    Oh, the state of the medium and how things were approached back in the day are totally why this is the thing it is. But that can be applied to every aspect of comics too. The medium has been influenced and controlled by corporate interests since very early on, and the creative and business sides often butt heads, with results no one intended. Wherever you put the blame though, the end result is that Clark's been characterized in a certain way over the years.

    And no, I wouldn't say Clark having a family is "impossible" and he's had Kara for decades and decades, Conner for what, twenty-something years, and now Jon for a couple. To say nothing of all the imaginary tales where he has kids. I just think it goes against the basic themes the brand plays around. The concept is elastic by nature; you can define "family" in many ways, after all. And if Clark and Lois are going to be married (which I support) then having a kid is the logical next step and not such a big jump. But still, it's not something I think makes the most sense for the character. Makes a lot of sense for the brand and the marketing, but for the character I just think family is one of those things Clark can't have. >shrug<

    He's the Last Son of Krypton. Except he's not. Kara technically avoids breaking that title by being older than Clark (and a girl) and Jon technically doesn't break it by being born on earth and only being half Kryptonian.....but having kids, knowing the family line will continue, renders the premise of "Last Son" moot.

    And Bendis is doing it right, as far as Im concerned. If Clark is going to have a family, I'd prefer it to be a weird, non-traditional, extranormal dynamic rather than something mundane and ordinary. Tomasi wrote the Kents a lot like my own family, actually (we're very close to the nuclear standard, oddly). And it was fun, dont get me wrong, but not really what Superman is about, in my eyes. And as Ive said, I enjoyed Tomasi and I like Jon (a lot more than I should, given my opinion here). But Clark actually getting the family and kids he so desperately wants? Just rings false to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Yeah, I heard of more than a few people who loved Super Sons but honestly didn't know Adventures of the Super Sons was a thing.
    Yeah I'd say the lack of marketing was a much bigger issue than fans feeling injured because Bendis took Jon in a new direction.

    And I dont buy the idea that the maxi was an "apology." Has anyone here ever known DC to be overly apologetic to fans? Who the hell in their right mind would say "Man, some people on the internet are sad because they don't like a direction that hasn't even solidified yet. Let's spend thousands of dollars on a book no one will buy so we can tell them we're sorry they disagree with our creative choice!" That doesn't sound like DC to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    I don't get the argument against Jon at times. Batman has a long string of "sons" who were his side kick, the current of whom is biologically his but Jon is an anomaly that should exist because Conner is more popular?
    Simple answer is that Clark isnt Bruce. Bruce is all about family and has been since very, very, very early on in his inception. A whole lot of his development has revolved around the idea of him trying to build a new family within the framework of his crusade and he's recruited and adopted a lot of people (especially kids) into it. Clark, since the early days of his publication history, has been much more of a "friendly loner" who didn't know what to do with blood relations (or clones, Daxamites, etc) and struggled to connect with them. Just look at that comic from a few pages back where Kara, Conner, Cir-El and Chris Kent accuse Clark of letting them die to protect his legacy. That's the history of the character. Almost eighty years of history have told me that Clark having kids isn't something natural or correct for him, and as much as I love Jon that opinion isn't going to be changed because DC management, who dont understand Superman in the first place, have told me it's suddenly different now.

    I am however, intrigued by the idea of Clark learning how to be good with family. As Superlad says, it's not "impossible" for Clark to have a positive family dynamic, it's just not his natural setting. But people can change. Watching him overcome that and learn to be a good and involved dad who didnt push his kid away would've been fascinating. But we didn't get that, we got Jon fully formed at ten years old. Had we gotten to see Clark's learning curve I likely would be calling this a natural progression for Clark instead of saying it doesn't fit his character. Im not a *total* slave to the pre-Crisis mindset, after all.
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  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I feel like no matter where you stand on the Jon Kent age up, this is a fairly universal opinion, and something we all would like to see addressed to some degree or another. And as I've said before, I think it was a bad move not to push for a mini of some sort that chronicles his adventures after Man of Steel issue 6 and before Superman issue 6. I grant Bendis that it's only been 2 issues since Jon finished his story, and we're heading for something big for him in only 3 issues, but what I wouldn't give for a classic Bendis talking heads issue right now, honestly lol

    It's also possible that I'm just being impatient because it's something I'm fascinated with.
    I agree, all i am saying is,i don't know this this adult jon. I know the kid, most people do. So they are attached to the kid. Why would they route for the adult jon, that feels different ? (i am strictly speaking of the fans, here).
    I would have loved to see jon-ultraman relation being expanded upon. I wanted to see if jon had been able to affect him. It was great seeing Ultraman crying and spilling his guts to jon. But, that relationship was not fleshed out nor taken forward in any meaningful manner. I mean, Ultraman practically raised the kid.it was one of best issues. I felt that dynamic more than jon-jor el dynamic. But, it was just used as a prop and to shift the blame from jor el and make him semi good guy.

  11. #131
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    Has something changed in recent times. Looks like people are saying his pretty much confirmed for getting stuck in the future.
    No. There has been no confirmation that he'll be stuck in the future. In my opinion, a lot of stuff points to the opposite, but that's just my opinion.

    I'm think it'll just be an updated version of what Clark as Superboy did in the Silver and Bronze age, but now since the possible dangers of Jon time traveling have been firmly established, it adds tension and stakes to what used to be "okay, I'll be home for dinner!" Now it's a little braver that Jon's risking something similar happening for presumably greater good and some people in need.
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  12. #132
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I agree, all i am saying is,i don't know this this adult jon.
    Yeah. Like I said it the post, I think that's a fair stance, and one that most, regardless of where they fall, are curious about answering.
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  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh, the state of the medium and how things were approached back in the day are totally why this is the thing it is. But that can be applied to every aspect of comics too. The medium has been influenced and controlled by corporate interests since very early on, and the creative and business sides often butt heads, with results no one intended. Wherever you put the blame though, the end result is that Clark's been characterized in a certain way over the years.
    And no, I wouldn't say Clark having a family is "impossible" and he's had Kara for decades and decades, Conner for what, twenty-something years, and now Jon for a couple. To say nothing of all the imaginary tales where he has kids. I just think it goes against the basic themes the brand plays around. The concept is elastic by nature; you can define "family" in many ways, after all. And if Clark and Lois are going to be married (which I support) then having a kid is the logical next step and not such a big jump. But still, it's not something I think makes the most sense for the character. Makes a lot of sense for the brand and the marketing, but for the character I just think family is one of those things Clark can't have. >shrug<
    He's the Last Son of Krypton. Except he's not. Kara technically avoids breaking that title by being older than Clark (and a girl) and Jon technically doesn't break it by being born on earth and only being half Kryptonian.....but having kids, knowing the family line will continue, renders the premise of "Last Son" moot.
    And Bendis is doing it right, as far as Im concerned. If Clark is going to have a family, I'd prefer it to be a weird, non-traditional, extranormal dynamic rather than something mundane and ordinary. Tomasi wrote the Kents a lot like my own family, actually (we're very close to the nuclear standard, oddly). And it was fun, dont get me wrong, but not really what Superman is about, in my eyes. And as Ive said, I enjoyed Tomasi and I like Jon (a lot more than I should, given my opinion here). But Clark actually getting the family and kids he so desperately wants? Just rings false to me.
    Simple answer is that Clark isnt Bruce. Bruce is all about family and has been since very, very, very early on in his inception. A whole lot of his development has revolved around the idea of him trying to build a new family within the framework of his crusade and he's recruited and adopted a lot of people (especially kids) into it. Clark, since the early days of his publication history, has been much more of a "friendly loner" who didn't know what to do with blood relations (or clones, Daxamites, etc) and struggled to connect with them. Just look at that comic from a few pages back where Kara, Conner, Cir-El and Chris Kent accuse Clark of letting them die to protect his legacy. That's the history of the character. Almost eighty years of history have told me that Clark having kids isn't something natural or correct for him, and as much as I love Jon that opinion isn't going to be changed because DC management, who dont understand Superman in the first place, have told me it's suddenly different now.
    I am however, intrigued by the idea of Clark learning how to be good with family. As Superlad says, it's not "impossible" for Clark to have a positive family dynamic, it's just not his natural setting. But people can change. Watching him overcome that and learn to be a good and involved dad who didnt push his kid away would've been fascinating. But we didn't get that, we got Jon fully formed at ten years old. Had we gotten to see Clark's learning curve I likely would be calling this a natural progression for Clark instead of saying it doesn't fit his character. Im not a *total* slave to the pre-Crisis mindset, after all.
    Honestly, i just see clark not being good at family as an extension and ramifications of having to keep secrets for so long. But, i always felt clark would get over it fast and his inner pa kent would come out. Smallville had him be great with kids.ofcourse, in that show he had an adopted kid brother of sorts who had the Ability to read minds and had died early on.And as for his legacy, i blame the management.Also,bruce might be a family man. But, he is no great father. In that comic i posted, his legacies accuse him of forgetting them,Not for letting them die. It was part of doomsday clock fanart.Him being "last son of krypton " has always been moot,bottled city of kandor existed. It had children and life going on in there as if normal.As for pre crisis mentality, that superman ended up being a family man had a jon of his own. If you count "whatever happened to man of tomorrow".

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I agree fanboys that can’t accept a job story unless he is a kid probably won’t be happy, for people with a open mind, I do think there is a lot of potential
    You say that like its an unfair position. People feel robbed of seven years of development and watching Jon grow up. That sucks.

    This fanboys aren't close-minded. They are understandably feeling betrayed.
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  15. #135
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Honestly, i just see clark not being good at family as an extension and ramifications of having to keep secrets for so long. But, i always felt clark would get over it fast and his inner pa kent would come out.
    I think that's a real big part of it. And the fact that he's so....accustomed?.....to being the last of his kind, meeting another Kryptonian must really screw with him. And once he reaches adulthood and becomes the biggest deal ever, I also think he's afraid of making someone measure up to that legend, which makes him uncomfortable.

    And yeah, I think he'd try his best and, generally, be a good father. But I think achieving that would be a challenge. He'd get there, but there'd be serious bumps in the road.

    And as for his legacy, i blame the management.Also,bruce might be a family man. But, he is no great father.
    Management, creators, fan expectations.....irrelevant. That's the characterization we've gotten. And no, Bruce is sure as hell not a good father. Never said he was?

    Him being "last son of krypton " has always been moot,bottled city of kandor existed. It had children and life going on in there as if normal.As for pre crisis mentality, that superman ended up being a family man had a jon of his own. If you count "whatever happened to man of tomorrow".
    Well, you got me on Kandor. And there's the Zone criminals too. But none of them are getting out and starting a new colony (except, I suppose, for when they do) to re-populate their species. But yeah, you got a good point there man.
    Last edited by Ascended; 06-18-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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