Looks like Jon is going forward to the future.

[Sam]

I don't buy that the age up situation hurts casual readers in regards to the Super Sons maxi. If one were to say it sticks in the craw of the hardcore fandom, absolutely. But singling out the casual reader? No way. In my experience casual readers are the one demo that cares least about that sort of thing. Casual readers care more about the moment. Its the hardcore fans who care more about continuity, the past, and setting things up for the future etc, etc. The casual reader? Stand alone stuff solely confined to that singular product doesn't bother them in the slightest. I think there'd be more of an argument to be made that confined stuff outside of normal continuity progression can be an outright appeal in their eyes, as opposed to something to scoff at.

Well, I think the lack of promotion might have been more of an issue for the causals.

[JAK]

I agree that Jon is going to stick around for a while. Seems that way anyway, and it seems like DC is interested in trying to expand his brand and recognition factor (Ink/Zoom OGN's, Legion, the Super Sons maxi, etc). Maybe he'll even become a staple, in time, just like Kara did. I dont think Jon (or Damian) are going anywhere. But what I'm saying is that DC looks at the tangible evidence they have; sales, and they pay less attention to internet chatter. And looking at the sales, it doesnt appear that Jon has the giant mountain of support these forums make it look like he does.

Oh, certainly. I'm just saying that they might be looking at this on a bit of a sliding scale due to what it is, much like L&C. But I agree that it definitely doesn't have anything to do with internet chatter.

I don't buy that the age up situation hurts casual readers in regards to the Super Sons maxi. If one were to say it sticks in the craw of the hardcore fandom, absolutely. But singling out the casual reader? No way. In my experience casual readers are the one demo that cares least about that sort of thing. Casual readers care more about the moment. Its the hardcore fans who care more about continuity, the past, and setting things up for the future etc, etc. The casual reader? Stand alone stuff solely confined to that singular product doesn't bother them in the slightest. I think there'd be more of an argument to be made that confined stuff outside of normal continuity progression can be an outright appeal in their eyes, as opposed to something to scoff at.

Yeah - I'd say it hurts more devoted readership for that reason, if anything.

I've heard your ideas on Clark and family before as this concept that it's just not something for him, and I agree, but only to the degree that it's not easy (but in no way shape or form impossible) for him. And I think the argument is flawed because of the nature of decades long serialized publication and the nature of Superman as a brand before now. But I do think friction in his family situation is something conceptually consistent that goes beyond guys in suits wanting Superman to leave his cousin in the care of strangers.

Bendis' Superman fascinates me, because he's saying that it's not that Clark is bad at family, but more so that his family is his blind spot, and he takes it quite hard if they aren't in the box he assumes they'd be in. He's a Superman who wants normal, but can't have it because of the nature of his life. That said, Bendis is also clearly putting up the point that Clark's family is quite extraordinary in their own right, and they keep up with his brand of crazy while bringing their own. This is the first time that it's been outright said to Clark "who needs normal? That doesn't HAVE to be us." As Bendis said, Clark's a "broken boy" but these people around him make him whole and they're able to roll with the punches.

I'm enjoying that take, too. If this was any other family, it wouldn't work. But they're *not* any other family, and that's why it does - if that makes any sense.

[jason white reborn]

Love how the posters in this thread moved the goalposts...they were running up and down about how jon won't be shipped off and Chris kented...but now we are witnessing it and now we get long pretentious(they are pretentious attempts to give superman flaws...family as blindspot is a absolute worse way of going about making superman complex) essays about how Clark never would be "good with family". This is why batman will always be better. They do not abandon the family aspect.

Bendis ruined the superman family and any writer that makes his run entirely centered on undoing this mess will be the only thing that will ever make me ever purchase a superman book again

[Superlad93]

I'm enjoying that take, too. If this was any other family, it wouldn't work. But they're *not* any other family, and that's why it does - if that makes any sense.

Yeah, I think it's a really great place to put Superman. It acknowledges him as a vulnerable and flawed character with stuff to emotionally work through, and it plays to the scale that he and family would naturally work at. Like, I can't tell you how happy I am that Chaz is a thing, and that Lois is totally part of it like it's a normal date night.

[Sacred Knight]

Well, I think the lack of promotion might have been more of an issue for the causals.

That I wouldn't have a hard time believing.

[jason white reborn]

Can't wait for legion to crash and burn. Absolute disaster of a decision

[Superlad93]

Love how the posters in this thread moved the goalposts...they were running up and down about how jon won't be shipped off and Chris kented...but now we are witnessing it and now we get long pretentious(they are pretentious attempts to give superman flaws...family as blindspot is a absolute worse way of going about making superman complex) essays about how Clark never would be "good with family".

Like, what is this? What actually is this? Do you wanna have a conversation? Do you have a point that you want to debate? Or are you just gonna take these childish snipes into the void hoping to rustle the jimmies of people who like a thing you don't-- people you don't even have the common courtesy to directly speak to?

[Sam]

That I wouldn't have a hard time believing.

Yeah, I heard of more than a few people who loved Super Sons but honestly didn't know Adventures of the Super Sons was a thing.

[JAK]

Love how the posters in this thread moved the goalposts...they were running up and down about how jon won't be shipped off and Chris kented...but now we are witnessing it and now we get long pretentious(they are pretentious attempts to give superman flaws...family as blindspot is a absolute worse way of going about making superman complex) essays about how Clark never would be "good with family". This is why batman will always be better. They do not abandon the family aspect.

Bendis ruined the superman family and any writer that makes his run entirely centered on undoing this mess will be the only thing that will ever make me ever purchase a superman book again

I'd prefer a 10-year old Jon S. Kent, myself, but it's a stretch to say he's being Chris Kent'd.

Yeah, I think it's a really great place to put Superman. It acknowledges him as a vulnerable and flawed character with stuff to emotionally work through, and it plays to the scale that he and family would naturally work at. Like, I can't tell you how happy I am that Chaz is a thing, and that Lois is totally part of it like it's a normal date night.

What I like is that, so far at least, they've found a way to balance these "flaws" in a way that doesn't scream "flaws just to add flaws" and still has a very strong Superman vibe to his characterization. That's not an easy line to walk, and it's being walked quite well imo. My brain isn't rolling it's eyes like it usually does in these things (I'm looking at the '00s and DCEU as an example/comparison for that).

[CPSparkles]

Someone from over on the DC Comics Legion thread brought up the pretty solid point that with a roster that's confirmed to be 34 members deep (34 members that have largely been absent from the DCU for nearly a decade) and set in the very far future, you'll likely need a member/character who is largely new to the whole thing, and can act as our gateway into this fantastic world.

For the Tomasi and Gleason fans (and I get that doesn't apply to you), it would actually be a similar device to what they used early on in Superman with Jon. I've also seen Bendis do this pretty often in his work especially when it's young characters being introduced into a new setting (Riri, Miles, and especially the young X-Men).

Also, on a more armchair marketing expert note: "Batman and The Outsiders", Damian running the last two incarnation of the Teen Titans, yet another Batman/Superman book being put out. DC (and Marvel) usually feels more comfortable using one of the more recognizable properties as a gateway for something that's either untested or has had a hard time before.

Jon isn't the character to use for that. he isn't Robin, Damian or Batman and as a Tomasi and Gleason fan I'm planning on boycotting this Title just like I've boycotted everything Bendis touches till the age up is undone. I consider everything Bendis is doing on the super title an insult to the work Tomasi and Gleason put so much hardwork and dedication into.

By your logic they might as well use Zoom Damian to headline TT.

[CPSparkles]

I dont get why people are assuming Jon will be in the Legion and nowhere else. Clark was with the Legion but still had plenty of adventures in his own era with his own supporting cast and rogues gallery.

There is literally no reason Jon can't do the same thing. I fully expect to see him in Superman, Legion, and possibly a team-book set in the modern day like Super Sons or Titans.

Seriously, Jon can do it just like Clark did; leave Friday night at 8:00 for the future, spend a few days with the Legion, then return home Friday night at 8:01, go on patrol with his dad until 11:00, then spend Saturday with Damian.

I personally don't want or need Jon in TT he doesn't fit into Damian's TT at all. other TT sure but not this gritty line up.

Supersons was unique there was no need to cancel it and no Tomasi has said that he's done with Supersons for a while. I never understood how some fans can have strong negative feelings for a creator just because of comics. I get it now.

[CPSparkles]

Then those people should have voted with their wallets and bought the current super done book, but they didn’t and it’s sales have been terrible

What about those of us who were voting with our wallets on the old title which DC cancelled despite good sales? Did it ever occur to you that that might have been a slap in the face? That my vote meant so little that DC was willing to cancel a title fans loved and supported with their wallets whilst keeping stuff that fans weren't supporting with their wallets going? Like Bat girl, RHATO, GA, BB? Half the DC roster of books were selling less than Supersons when they cancelled it to give us an out of continuity book that had zero stakes which for a lot killed their interest

Right now I'm considering dropping Nightwing because of Ric but if I do will posters like you and DC blame falling sales on the Character rather than a bad decision that has failed to keep my interest in a title and character that I love? Which was the case with Adventures of the Supersons.

Please don't casually toss out vote with your wallets when it isn't as black and white or as straight forward as that.
I am voting with my wallet. I'm buying the original supersons Omni and I bought every Issue of the old series. I will not support a direction I dislike though which was the case for the Adventures of the Supersons. If you want to gauge support for the supersons then do it fairly and use the series before bendis messed with things.

I'm sure you wouldn't use the current Nightwing to gauge fan response to the Nightwing Title so don't do the same with Supersons.

[Superlad93]

he isn't Robin, Damian or Batman

Not may characters are, but he is both Superboy, and Superman's in continuity son. That alone makes him easily recognizable and very easily to sell on a cover to a perspective reader. I'd say he very much is the character to use for that in the absence of your Robins, Batmans, and Supermans.

By your logic they might as well use Zoom Damian to headline TT.

This thread is kind of heated, so I really wanna make it clear that this isn't any sort of snark or sass, but, no, I don't think that works along the lines of my logic. How does that correlate?

[Fergus]

I don't know how easily recognisable Jon is. Conner yeah but Jon not so much.

Conner would have been the better option for the face of Legion not the barely known Superboy Jon.

[CPSparkles]

Not may characters are, but he is both Superboy, and Superman's in continuity son. That alone makes him easily recognizable and very easily to sell on a cover to a perspective reader. I'd say he very much is the character to use for that in the absence of your Robins, Batmans, and Supermans.



This thread is kind of heated, so I really wanna make it clear that this isn't any sort of snark or sass, but, no, I don't think that works along the lines of my logic. How does that correlate?

Damian Ian Wayne is similar to 17 year old Jon Kent in that he is a controversial drastically altered version of a character that has a large portion of the fan base loudly voicing their dislike of that version.

An unpopular version of a character that pisses a lot of fans off. DC already had a better known more popular Superboy that could act as a face of Young justice.

Jon was already divisive even before the age up he isn't a good figure to headline that title. How many fans here who are looking forward to the

Legion title are doing so because of Jon?
How many Jon Kent fans here are going to be picking up the title for Jon.
Who is picking up that title for Jon?

i can't see many people doing so. The Jon Kent fans on here seem to be very much against it and some are even boycotting. The fans on this thread and on the DC thread who are looking forward to the title are doing so because they are fans of the group nothing to do with Jon.

Conner has more chances of bringing in fans to that title than Jon does. he is much more recognisable and as easy to sell on the cover.
Conner has outside media popularity just like Damian and batman which makes them better options if you are looking for someone to bring fans in.