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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    As awful as some of the stuff in Azz's run was, and I don't shed many tears with it being gone from continuity...it was still better than Finch, Robinson and a lot of other runs. If for its style, if nothing else.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greymoon View Post
    If it got you to "start reading the character" than how could you "enjoy the character again"? What about the things that came before? Did it correlate? I'd rather not talk about the Azz run as I'm sick of discussing it. Finches were awful, that's true. But for me, so was Azz.
    At that time, they were restarting the character with a clean slate.
    Unlike Batman and Geoff Johns' Green Lantern, at the start of the New52, it was a new Wonder Woman with nothing that was "canon" in her backstory. So if nothing technically came before, Azzarello & Chiang weren't necessarily changing anything that was already established.
    (I also preferred their run to what Geoff Johns was doing to Diana in his first 12 issues of Justice League then. Diana seemed too generic at first, like letting loose a barbarian fighter in Washington DC. And don't tell me the Superman-Wonder Woman romance didn't ignore previous continuities!)

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight25 View Post
    What did editors do to sabotage Simone and Ruka?
    Rucka had plans on staying on past Infinite Crisis, but was removed in favor of Allen Heinberg. One possible reason is that he got into an argument with Didio over WW's fate after IC (Didio wanted her to go on the run).

    Heinberg wanted to use Batman in his run of WW (instead of Nemesis) and I believe one of the Batbook writers also wanted to use WW, but got vetoed.

    Simone wanted to use the Greek Gods from Rucka's run and was vetoed the idea by the editor who iirc is the same person that helped sabotage Waid's run of Captain America back when he worked at Marvel (and also burned through close to 10 different writers on the two Superman books in the span of five years). Though to be fair he is also the credited for the Azzarello run, but that one had several powerful people including Didio and Chiarello backing it.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 06-14-2019 at 05:44 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    Rucka had plans on staying on past Infinite Crisis, but was removed in favor of Allen Heinberg. One possible reason is that he got into an argument with Didio over WW's fate after IC (Didio wanted her to go on the run).

    Heinberg wanted to use Batman in his run of WW (instead of Nemesis) and I believe one of the Batbook writers also wanted to use WW, but got vetoed.

    Simone wanted to use the Greek Gods from Rucka's run and was vetoed the idea by the editor who iirc is the same person that helped sabotage Waid's run of Captain America back when he worked at Marvel (and also burned through close to 10 different writers on the two Superman books in the span of five years). Though to be fair he is also the credited for the Azzarello run, but that one had several powerful people including Didio and Chiarello backing it.
    Why would dido and others do that? Putting onstacles in the way, why?

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Since Diana hasn’t had her own editor she is at the mercy of the main guys who who are in charge. She needs her own editor. Some one who knows her

  6. #21
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    The closest person is probably Chris Conroy who has been her and on editor since New 52. He was the assistant editor on the Azzarello run (he apparently got his start doing stuff with Mark Chiarello on stuff like Wednesday Comics and the Doc Savage/Spirit/Batman pulp series) and editor on the Rucka and Robinson Rebirth runs and the start of the G Willow Wilson run before she got moved back to Superman editorial and Conroy moved out of DC editorial. The results are mixed especially since you have Dan Didio himself interfering in the book and going over the head of the editors as we saw with the Robinson run.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 06-14-2019 at 06:52 PM.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    It seems it would be best if they actually gave rules for Diana. There is issues with her power-scaling and issue with her being a supporting cast.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    The closest person is probably Chris Conroy who has been her and on editor since New 52. He was the assistant editor on the Azzarello run (he apparently got his start doing stuff with Mark Chiarello on stuff like Wednesday Comics and the Doc Savage/Spirit/Batman pulp series) and editor on the Rucka and Robinson Rebirth runs and the start of the G Willow Wilson run before she got moved back to Superman editorial and Conroy moved out of DC editorial. The results are mixed especially since you have Dan Didio himself interfering in the book and going over the head of the editors as we saw with the Robinson run.

    But why? Are you telling me those people go out of their way to prevent WW from getting better action and feats, a more solid, consistent and established cast etc? Why do they do that?

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCER View Post
    I forget where I saw this but isn't there a stipulation between DC and Marston's estate that WONDER WOMAN must be published continuously?

    I believe the only break in publication was in 1986 between WONDER WOMAN #329, THE LEGEND OF WONDER WOMAN 4-issue mini series by Trina Robbins, and the launch of WONDER WOMAN #1 under George Perez's auspices.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    If they do that it would go back to Marstonís family. Despite everything Dc doesnít want to lose the rights to Diana. Maybe itís actually for the best if they did. The only down side is certain characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCER View Post
    I dunno about that. Reversion of rights to the Marstons? What happens then? No WONDER WOMAN at all?
    Once upon a time that was the case and yes, the rights would have reverted to the Marston estate. However, that clause ended a handful of years ago and now DC and WB are free to use her however they like or dont like.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Hell no. While the main WW title might not be great I’m loving what Tynion is doing with her in JL Dark, and we’re finally getting the big Circe story in September. I want to see Circe’s Injustice League Dark vs. Diana’s JL Dark REALLY badly, it’s the first time in forever Circe has gotten to be a major player.

  11. #26
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    Rucka had plans on staying on past Infinite Crisis, but was removed in favor of Allen Heinberg. One possible reason is that he got into an argument with Didio over WW's fate after IC (Didio wanted her to go on the run).

    Heinberg wanted to use Batman in his run of WW (instead of Nemesis) and I believe one of the Batbook writers also wanted to use WW, but got vetoed.

    Simone wanted to use the Greek Gods from Rucka's run and was vetoed the idea by the editor who iirc is the same person that helped sabotage Waid's run of Captain America back when he worked at Marvel (and also burned through close to 10 different writers on the two Superman books in the span of five years). Though to be fair he is also the credited for the Azzarello run, but that one had several powerful people including Didio and Chiarello backing it.
    In addition, as I understand it, editorial also is one of the prime reasons Genocide was botched.

    Originally, she was going to be a resurrected version of Knockout, but halfway through the arc, DC nixed that option because the New Gods were being handled elsewhere. Gail had to rewrite the script in mid-story.

    She is also not the only one this happened to. George Perez left Superman early because he would pitch a story, get approval, write it and then suddenly have to re-write it in mid-arc due to events outside the book, particularly Action which took place in the past.

    Unfortunately, it seems multiple writers and titles have fallen victim to miscommunications among editors :/

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Yet Marston’s family says that’s untrue. So I can’t see why it isn’t the case. If it is Diana would something they still wouldn’t want to cancel.

  13. #28
    Just crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    At that time, they were restarting the character with a clean slate.
    Unlike Batman and Geoff Johns' Green Lantern, at the start of the New52, it was a new Wonder Woman with nothing that was "canon" in her backstory. So if nothing technically came before, Azzarello & Chiang weren't necessarily changing anything that was already established.
    (I also preferred their run to what Geoff Johns was doing to Diana in his first 12 issues of Justice League then. Diana seemed too generic at first, like letting loose a barbarian fighter in Washington DC. And don't tell me the Superman-Wonder Woman romance didn't ignore previous continuities!)
    Unless you are calling Azz a liar, he stated in an interview that it was a soft reboot, so basically the opposite of what you said.

    But, Azz outright lied in my opinion. Bad enough that his run got me to stop buying her comic, to add insult to the injury he thinks we are all dumb when he makes statements like that.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    He said he thought her world was boring. I wonder what happens now. We still have the issue with strength inconsistent

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    And don't tell me the Superman-Wonder Woman romance didn't ignore previous continuities!)
    It's not fully out of left field, but at the same time not the normal status quo.

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