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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    The only thing thatís felt like filler to me was the Knightmares arc
    For me almost everything since the Proposal felt like an extremely slow paced filler.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Some of the Knightmares were intentionally trippy, but I have no idea how people can not follow what came after. It has been the most explicit and straightforward the series has ever been. Maybe the poor shift between Janin and Fornes between issues is jarring.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  3. #48
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    For me almost everything since the Proposal felt like an extremely slow paced filler.
    While you have every right to feel that way, personally I disagree. Even if I wasn’t happy with the execution or content, generally I could identify the purpose of the arc and what it contributes toward King’s overall story. The only time (that I can recall) I’ve failed to understand what they contribute to that story was the Nightmares arc. So far it feels like you could go straight from issue 60 to 69 without reading anything in between yet miss nothing of significance at all. Which, to me, is what makes it filler.

  4. #49
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Some of the Knightmares were intentionally trippy, but I have no idea how people can not follow what came after. It has been the most explicit and straightforward the series has ever been. Maybe the poor shift between Janin and Fornes between issues is jarring.
    Oh great, I guess I'm stupid! One more thing I have to deal with now.

  5. #50
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat1987 View Post
    Dreams ended once batman got free from scarecrow's machine.

    Still, Knightmares lasted way too long and completely killed the momentum of this run for me.
    But how much of the run was a dream then? That's what I'm not sure about. When did the dreams start? Was the whole Catwoman relationship a dream then?

  6. #51
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    But how much of the run was a dream then? That's what I'm not sure about. When did the dreams start? Was the whole Catwoman relationship a dream then?
    The dream goes from 61 to 63, takes a short intermission for a HIC tie in than starts back up From 66 to 69. The issue where Bruce fights his way out of Arkham and threatens to return with his army is when Bruce is back in reality.

  7. #52
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Thanks for your help!

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Here's basically the summary of everything that's happened recently:
    Thomas breaks into the Batcave and beats up Batman. He takes him to Arkham where Bane straps him to the machine, injecting him with Scarecrow serum where he experiences all of those Knightmares for 7 issues. He escapes and breaks out of Arkham (but that's all part of Bane's scheme). He summons the rest of the Batfamily to storm Arkham, but when he gets there everything's back to normal, causing Batman to lose it because he has no idea how Bane is doing it. He goes back home where Bane and Thomas show up, he fights them and loses, which leads to Thomas taking him out into the desert.

    While I wouldn't say the story has been that confusing when you really look at what's going on, I will kind of agree it has been feeling pretty slow lately. Outside of the "Cat" Knightmares issue, there hasn't really been an issue that has personally WOWed me like so many others from the first two years have, but I also haven't hated anything that has happened so far.

    This is a book that has always turned out better for me when I read it all in one go as opposed to bi-weekly, so I'm willing to hold off final judgment on the whole thing until its conclusion.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    While you have every right to feel that way, personally I disagree. Even if I wasnít happy with the execution or content, generally I could identify the purpose of the arc and what it contributes toward Kingís overall story.
    Maybe be but the pacing is so slow, that if you read an issue it usually feels like nothing happens in it.
    For me it feels like King is just drawing stuff out since he doesn't really has enough plot for the amount of issues he has to write.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    Oh great, I guess I'm stupid! One more thing I have to deal with now.
    I've seen a lot of people here and on other places like Reddit who seem to have had a hard time following post-Knightmares. I'm just not entirely sure why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    But how much of the run was a dream then? That's what I'm not sure about. When did the dreams start? Was the whole Catwoman relationship a dream then?
    Oh, I actually think I understand now. There is a short time skip after the Penguin arc during which Batman is subdued by his father, taken to Arkham, and strapped to a Scarecrow fear gas machine in Arkham. Everything before that actually happened. I believe that this was skipped to leave the reader slightly disoriented as to what exactly what was happening as Knightmares started and to begin to understand progressively as Batman began to figure out his situation. King has talked about how ultimately he writes Batman as a POV book. The reader is not privy to information Batman does not, so we experience things as he experiences them. But the skip was a bit jarring and abrupt, and probably through a lot of readers for a loop. I also happened to find it dissatisfying since we didn't see the immediate reaction of Bruce seeing this version of his father in this reality.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Oh, I actually think I understand now. There is a short time skip after the Penguin arc during which Batman is subdued by his father, taken to Arkham, and strapped to a Scarecrow fear gas machine in Arkham. Everything before that actually happened. I believe that this was skipped to leave the reader slightly disoriented as to what exactly what was happening as Knightmares started and to begin to understand progressively as Batman began to figure out his situation. King has talked about how ultimately he writes Batman as a POV book. The reader is not privy to information Batman does not, so we experience things as he experiences them. But the skip was a bit jarring and abrupt, and probably through a lot of readers for a loop. I also happened to find it dissatisfying since we didn't see the immediate reaction of Bruce seeing this version of his father in this reality.
    I think what also didn't help is it went from the "long awaited confrontation between Batman and Flashpoint Batman" jumping immediately to the Master Bruce sequel story, which is seemingly its own standalone "canon" story, only for it to be confirmed later that it was in fact a dream Bruce was having, which honestly I think it would've played out better/the reception would've been warmed, had that Master Bruce story happened somewhere in the middle. Thematically (at least to me) it doesn't seem to make sense as his first nightmare, while the Pyg story structurally and thematically works better as a starter.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  12. #57
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Ok thanks I feel slightly less stupid now

  13. #58

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    Oh yeah, good point!

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