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  1. #1
    Amazing Member johnnyjam2233's Avatar
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    Default Anyone else an Ultimate Comics fan??

    So.......I used to run a cigar shop in Chicago on the corner of State and Rush. Transformers Dark of the Moon showed a GLORIOUS battle on this very corner, but from 1997 to 1999, I was the manager of a cigar shop just one retail store shop in from the middle of State and Rush, on the street of Maple and running a Cigar shop where we had Dominican Republicans crafting hand made cigars one stair case up from the street. Around the corner was a Borders Books and Music store. Once a week, I would take $20 or so and go to the Borders and head to their comic book trade session and purchase a novel. This was before the day of the internet. Comic book fanboys got their news mainly from Wizard Magazine. I was reading about a guy named Grant Morrison and his run on the JLA. I didn't buy DC books at the time. In fact, I only bought X-Men books, but because I was taking $20 a week, I was buying shit I never would usually buy. I started buying JLA written by Grant Morrison. At that time, I was also watching Batman The Animated series, and Superman The Animated series. It was my introduction to Superman villains. I already knew Batmans, because I had been watching Batman BTAS, for a few years. Anyways, I fell in love with Grant Morrisons JLA run that had lasted a few years. Anyway, according to Wizard, Morrison was leaving DC to come to Marvel's hottest selling title, The Uncanny X-Men. I was so excited. Anyway. Morrison went on to write what is considered one the best X-Men runs ever. I myself, and I am one of a select few, HATED IT!!!!! This all happend before the 911 attacks. This fact plays into what I'm about to state. I walked into my local comic shop and bitched and complained to the store owner how I had nothing to read. I hated what Morrison was doing on Uncanny X-Men. The store owner asked me what I felt about Spider-Man. I told him I started out collecting all the Spider-man books, but stopped once Bagley got the art gig after Eric Larsen on Amazing. He told me about a new cat named Brian Bendis that was writing Ultimate Spider-man, but Bagley was the artist. I told him I knew Bendis from Daredevil and liked him, and I was okay with Bagley as an artist. He mentioned Ultimate X-Men and gave me a copy of a book that collected the first 3 issues of Ult. X-Men for free, and that the next day I would be back to buy the other 2 copies that were out. I did just this. I read the free book he gave me, came back to the store and bought issue 4 and 5. I was impressed with the modernization of them. How Magneto was sending videos to the American government just like Bin Laden was doing. Magneto was no longer the "I want to rule the world" bad guy we all knew from the 616 comics. He was now a terrorist. Now just the Brotherhood of Mutants, not the Evil Brotherhood of Mutants. They bombed Parliament. They were written as if the X-Men had first come out that year. Now issues 6 comes out, and George Bush attacks Magneto at the behest of Charles Xavier warning him, and saying how Magneto should not be threatened because he was the most deadly being on the planet, and all this happening right after 911 and Oliver North warning about Bin laden.
    Then the Ultimates comes out, and it's modernized. The Ultimate books were craazy dead on. Bendis was writing a great Spider-Man run that lasted a couple hundred issues, but Millar left both the Ultimates and X-Men but came back with Greg Land to do a ten issue run of Ultimate Fantastic Four that I think is very under rated. Namor is in one of the archs, and his powerset is almost that of Superman's. No one remembers this run. I'm just wondering if anyone else read them, and what they thought.

  2. #2
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    I was just entering my teens when Ultimate Spider-man came out. I bought whatever Spider-man comics I could find at local newsagents here in Australia. But Ultimate got me into comic buying on a regular basis and I followed it avidly. Then the other Ultimate titles came out and I got those as well.

    I had no problems following 616 stuff. But the main draw for me with the Ultimate line was the fact it was a totally different landscape. It was a world where anything could, and often did, happen. Ultimate Spider-man was the most consistent title and is still my personal favourite. I didn't really get into Ultimate X-Men until the Weapon X storyline (the second arc). I loved Ultimate Fantastic Four until it went off the rails around the 25 - 30 issue mark.

    But Ultimates? Man, that first series was awesome. The second series I have mixed feelings about. As for the third? Well, less said about it the better.

  3. #3
    In League with Dragons Personamanx's Avatar
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    I was a huge fan of the Ultimate universe. Not all of it was great during its Fifteen year run, but the high points are still some of the best superhero comics of the 2000s. I'm content with it having ended, for the most part but I really wish they had a better send off rather than as a confusing tie-in to Secret Wars.
    Continuity, even in a "shared" comics universe is often insignificant if not largely detrimental to the quality of a comic.

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  4. #4
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    I loved the Ultimate universe pre ultimatum. I actually preferred over the 616 books.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Personamanx View Post
    I was a huge fan of the Ultimate universe. Not all of it was great during its Fifteen year run, but the high points are still some of the best superhero comics of the 2000s. I'm content with it having ended, for the most part but I really wish they had a better send off rather than as a confusing tie-in to Secret Wars.
    The Ultimate books pretty much died with Ultimatum. It really should have ended then and there. Everything that came after (Miles excluded) was just a shadow of the lines former glory. Actually, it wasn't even that.

  6. #6
    In League with Dragons Personamanx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    The Ultimate books pretty much died with Ultimatum. It really should have ended then and there. Everything that came after (Miles excluded) was just a shadow of the lines former glory. Actually, it wasn't even that.
    I wouldn't agree. Ultimatum wasn't great, but the line survived well enough. Didn't care for what Loeb or Millar did naturally, but Spider-Man never wavered much in quality. We agree that Miles was a bright spot, but I would also say that the post DOSM X-Men series was the best book they've had in the Ultimate Universe.
    Continuity, even in a "shared" comics universe is often insignificant if not largely detrimental to the quality of a comic.

    Die - House/Powers of X - Once & Future - Runaways

    Nobody cares about what you don't like, they barely care about what you do like.

  7. #7
    Fantastic Member Magnito's Avatar
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    Ultimate X-Men was amazing until Kirkman took over. Then it went downhill, fast. Shame to, I usually like his work. But his UXM was horrendous.

  8. #8
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    I liked the early Ultimates stuff. Sort of went downhill fast after Ultimatum.

    But I think once the regular MU began going in the Civil War direction, the Ultimate universe sort of lost it's distint feel. I won't say it felt redundent but it didn't feel as different.

  9. #9
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    From what I remember, The Ultimate Line initially did really well. To the point of it outselling some of the main line and Marvel subtly incorporating some elements of that approach into the 616 universe. It's no secret that the Marvel movies are a mix or the 616 and Ult Universe concepts. What did the line in were creators moving on to other projects and their replacements not having many great story ideas beyond "updating" characters. Loeb and Millar degenerating the line into just doing lame shock tatics. Plus, the absurd delays didn't help anyone.

  10. #10
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    From what I remember, The Ultimate Line initially did really well. To the point of it outselling some of the main line and Marvel subtly incorporating some elements of that approach into the 616 universe. It's no secret that the Marvel movies are a mix or the 616 and Ult Universe concepts. What did the line in were creators moving on to other projects and their replacements not having many great story ideas beyond "updating" characters. Loeb and Millar degenerating the line into just doing lame shock tatics. Plus, the absurd delays didn't help anyone.
    Millar actually was one of the architects of the Ultimate line... really THE architect for most of it. But yeah... he seemed to run out of steam towards the end there really really fast.

  11. #11

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    The Ultimate comics are the best comics that Marvel ever made, and nothing that Marvel has done since then comes anywhere near them. Not even close.

    As for post-Ultimatum, I completely disagree. Yes, Miles Morales was great, but it was far from the only good thing they did. Hickman's Ultimates was also great, as it was turning Reed into the Maker. Also the Civil War arc (not the superhero civil war of 616, but the actual civil war, with the Union falling apart and states trying to become independent states). In 616 they say that "Every X-Men story is the same", well, in Ultimate Comics X-Men they were actually treading into unknown territory. Mutantkind was revealed to be an actual disease (not a new species), mutant hate post-Ultimatum is higher than ever, there is no safe haven in a luxury mansion, the big four (Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine and Cyclops) are all dead, and mutants have been killed or cured to the degree that only a handful of mutants remain. Not even 198. Yes, the "extinction of the species" arc has been done to death in X-Men comics, but this time you could actually feel it. Even the miniseries (Ultimate Thor, Ultimate Hawkeye, Ultimate Captain America, Ultimate Wolverine, etc) were great. And Cataclysm was awesome!

    And, as for Ultimatum itself... yes, it is not the best comic in the Ultimate Marvel universe. And yet, it is still better than many other arcs done by Marvel, such as One More Day, Venomized or Infinity Wars (in plural). Yes, they killed off half the cast. But a common criticism of the "Infinity War" film was that it was not credible that Marvel would actually kill off Black Panther, Spider-Man, half the Avengers and all but one of the Guardians, that they would obviously come back to life by the next film. So what about an "Infinity War" that was actually true to its premise? That is what "Ultimatum" is.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    From what I remember, The Ultimate Line initially did really well. To the point of it outselling some of the main line and Marvel subtly incorporating some elements of that approach into the 616 universe. It's no secret that the Marvel movies are a mix or the 616 and Ult Universe concepts. What did the line in were creators moving on to other projects and their replacements not having many great story ideas beyond "updating" characters. Loeb and Millar degenerating the line into just doing lame shock tatics. Plus, the absurd delays didn't help anyone.
    You can add Kirkman to it in Ultimate X-men. The entire point of the creation of the Ultimate Universe was run away from convoluted stuff, particularly 90's X-men stuff, and for that they decided to bring someone that was admittedly crazy about 90's X-men and all that convoluted stuff, it was clearly never going to go well.

    But Ultimatum was really what ended up destroying the line. Not that they were wasn't good stuff after that, but it killed fan enthusiasm. In my opinion, is was worst creative mistake in the history of Marvel, and that's saying a lot.

  13. #13
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Pre-Ultimatum X-Men and Fantastic Four got mediocre and the event itself, which in no universe is OMD and Avengers 200-level, refreshed the line and actually pushed the idea of an alternative universe. The point where things really went to hell was after Spencer and Hickman dipped from their books, and the final nail in the coffin was when Miles' book relaunched in 2014 and got wack.

    who cares tho Ultimates2 is the GOAT and makes it all worth it
    I spend three hours a night alone playing dance games.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    and the event itself, which in no universe is OMD and Avengers 200-level,
    I think it is- one thing is to shake things up- Civil War did it, Secret Invasion and Dark Reign also did it, just to mention a few examples- another is have Blob eat the Wasp and kill virtually every character worth nothing in the X-men particularly.

  15. #15
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    Love the first two volumes of the Ultimates from Millar, and I feel the two Hickman volumes of the Ultimates fits right along with that. His stories and Ribic's art really keep the tone going. The Maker being one of the great adversaries. Loved Ultimate Thor as well as it really connected well with the Ultimates, but also turned the Thor story on its side. I wish there had been more with his story.

    Much of the other Ultimate line as hit and miss with me, but overall I loved this universe and what it offered. I felt it had a great balance of the super heroic with down to earth concepts and characters.
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