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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    What's hurting Wonder Woman sales more than anything is the way the comic book market is set up: focused on selling to established readers rather than gaining new ones, and as a niche product rather than as a true mass market product.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtools View Post
    Speaking for myself, I gave up on the book when they pushed Greg Rucka off in the middle of a run that looked like it might finally resolve the problems with Azzarello's run, but still keep the good parts of it.
    And then they replaced him with James Robinson who decided to focus on Dian's random new brother for some stupid reason.
    That wasn't Robinson's fault. He was ordered to by Dan Didio.

    Dan DiDio specifically asked me to do something with Jason as it had been a major plot-point that hadn’t been addressed or resolved in over a year.
    https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/0...o-wonder-woman

    The same I believe for all the crap with Zeus.

    In other words DC publishing wanted to undermine Rucka's run immediately after he was out the door (apparently since he had a bunch of writing obligations on several Indie books at Image).
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 06-17-2019 at 05:56 AM.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    That wasn't Robinson's fault. He was ordered to by Dan Didio.
    I think we can blame DC for Jason having to be there and daddy!Zeus. But writing them the way he did is all on Robinson (though some of it has to spatter on Conroy as well, as the editor of the title).
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #19
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If those books want I Ching they can keep him.
    We can say the same about Cassie, who is a Trigon-powered hero, now. She's unrecognizable, and the WW comic is getting along fine, without her!

    Bye, Cassie...
    Look alive, Kangaliers!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    We can say the same about Cassie, who is a Trigon-powered hero, now. She's unrecognizable, and the WW comic is getting along fine, without her!

    Bye, Cassie...
    Cassie powered by Trigon is no longer in continuity. Close but no cigar.

    And she's nowhere near as problematic as I Ching.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think we can blame DC for Jason having to be there and daddy!Zeus. But writing them the way he did is all on Robinson (though some of it has to spatter on Conroy as well, as the editor of the title).
    Robinson simply does not do well with editorial mandates from DC (as we saw with Cry for Justice and Superman/New Krypton). You are not going to get water from a rock here.

  7. #22
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think we can blame DC for Jason having to be there and daddy!Zeus. But writing them the way he did is all on Robinson (though some of it has to spatter on Conroy as well, as the editor of the title).
    I think Robinson was doing us a favor. It seems he knew Jason was a hard sell so he intentionally gave him the easily misled over-dramatic slacker personality he knew we wouldn't care for, made him overpowered to the point he almost surpassed Wonder Woman, then shipped him off to limbo. He fulfilled Didio's mandate but also made Jason unlikable and unusable, so he wouldn't be around to clutter up the Wonder-verse.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Not embracing her Marston roots and challenging the status quo, sometimes provocatively, depending on the topic. Not having a consistent superstar writer and artist combo team depicting her and her world in a unique way. Not having an editor who can see and wants to portray Wonder Woman's world as expansive as it could be in the realms of myth, magic, sci-fi, superheroics, mystery, romance, action/adventure, etc. Not giving her a second ongoing and not mandating that her trove of longtime villains must be explored and incorporated in new, dynamic ways.

    Not approaching her as it being okay that Wonder Woman is "just" a mediocre title.

  9. #24
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I think Robinson was doing us a favor. It seems he knew Jason was a hard sell so he intentionally gave him the easily misled over-dramatic slacker personality he knew we wouldn't care for, made him overpowered to the point he almost surpassed Wonder Woman, then shipped him off to limbo. He fulfilled Didio's mandate but also made Jason unlikable and unusable, so he wouldn't be around to clutter up the Wonder-verse.
    I'd like to think that's true, but here are some interview quotes from Robinson:

    And that gave me more time to develop Jason and play with him more.

    "I was careful to make sure it wasn't only about Jason, however. I was already getting crap from social media about how this is Wonder Woman's book and she should be the center of attention at all time. You know how strident Wonder Woman fans can be."

    "Yeah, he was a baby when he was first introduced. Most of who the character is now is stuff that I've actually come up with. Geoff's a buddy, and I give credit where it's due, because he came up with the idea in the first place. But I'm proud of how I've grown and developed the character from that seed of an idea."

    "I think so, at least at the beginning as he was starting to develop. Now, technically, I suppose he's more powerful than her in that he has the power of their father Zeus and the power of storms and air control and things like that."

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Lack of consistent supporting cast that shows up more then two runs in a row. A rogue’s gallery that seems I’ll prepared to challenge a heroine of Diana’s power level. Often being written by people who aren’t a fan of her established mythos. Editors seem to want to run away from the weirder elements of her franchise, rather then embracing it. The strange desire on DC’s part to keep her junior characters(Wondergirl) as separate from her as possible. Lack of iconic locations to set stories in(this is why her homeland gets overused).

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtools View Post
    I think it's just the perennial problem that she should be selling more based on her iconic status - more so now after the film.

    People have these same conversations about Fantastic Four and other classic characters whose sales don't match their rep.

    For me, what's holding WW back is that they never took the chance to build a 'Wonder family' of books, with spin-off titles that create a little corner of the universe for WW, like Batman and Superman have
    The first point is the justification for the latter point. Because Wonder Woman's main book has never sold as well as Batman or Superman, she doesn't get the same amount of spinoffs. I think Batman and Superman are overexposed in the DC universe because of this so it isn't a particularly big negative for me, as it stands she sell wells enough and she's more popular than ever. Whether or not we get a Wonder Girl book doesn't matter.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    The first point is the justification for the latter point. Because Wonder Woman's main book has never sold as well as Batman or Superman, she doesn't get the same amount of spinoffs. I think Batman and Superman are overexposed in the DC universe because of this so it isn't a particularly big negative for me, as it stands she sell wells enough and she's more popular than ever. Whether or not we get a Wonder Girl book doesn't matter.
    WW has actually had moments where she sold as well as them. We may b talking about decades ago but still. And she doesn't seel as wellas them for the reasons many here have expressed, like users WonderScott and mathew101281 above.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I'd like to think that's true, but here are some interview quotes from Robinson:

    And that gave me more time to develop Jason and play with him more.

    "I was careful to make sure it wasn't only about Jason, however. I was already getting crap from social media about how this is Wonder Woman's book and she should be the center of attention at all time. You know how strident Wonder Woman fans can be."

    "Yeah, he was a baby when he was first introduced. Most of who the character is now is stuff that I've actually come up with. Geoff's a buddy, and I give credit where it's due, because he came up with the idea in the first place. But I'm proud of how I've grown and developed the character from that seed of an idea."

    "I think so, at least at the beginning as he was starting to develop. Now, technically, I suppose he's more powerful than her in that he has the power of their father Zeus and the power of storms and air control and things like that."
    The last quote is uh. All male heroes with a female counterpart are above their femaale version. The most iconic female bhero with almost 80 years of history gets a male version. And in no time he is technically more powerful than her. The bad treatment never ends for wondy.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Sadly I agree with an earlier poster. What is hurting Diana most is aside from perhaps the often absent Amazons she has no truly iconic supporting elements: home city, supporting cast, civilian career/identity, or enemies. Even her best known supporting cast members like Steve Trevor, Circe and Cheetah are semi-iconic at best. Another major problem is the lack of any widely acclaimed character-defining storylines like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Flash, or the X-Men all possess.
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-17-2019 at 02:31 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I'd like to think that's true, but here are some interview quotes from Robinson:

    And that gave me more time to develop Jason and play with him more.

    "I was careful to make sure it wasn't only about Jason, however. I was already getting crap from social media about how this is Wonder Woman's book and she should be the center of attention at all time. You know how strident Wonder Woman fans can be."

    "Yeah, he was a baby when he was first introduced. Most of who the character is now is stuff that I've actually come up with. Geoff's a buddy, and I give credit where it's due, because he came up with the idea in the first place. But I'm proud of how I've grown and developed the character from that seed of an idea."

    "I think so, at least at the beginning as he was starting to develop. Now, technically, I suppose he's more powerful than her in that he has the power of their father Zeus and the power of storms and air control and things like that."
    You know how strident Wonder Woman fans can be.

    Yeah because if you took Batman and made him into the side kick of some character who just turned up nobody would complain.

    Pfft.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

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