Snoke vs Darth Vader

[master of read]

PIS was my thought. Or simply 'can counter with force'. Or what MichaelC states, above. I never thought of it as an actual bubble...did someone in the prequels say this? Because maaan, I would remember it in a movie if I saw it; would have given me the giggles. ^_^

i dont remember any one, jedi or sith, using a "force bubble" in any of the prequels.

but micheal has a good point. the few times force users used the force during a duel was when they are at a distance from each other. the only time i remember it being used up close was during obi-wan and anakin's fight and they pretty much canceled each other out.

[The Arbiter]

Unlike those guys, Smoke can near instantly cast Force without gestures or anything. Just sitting in his chair, smiling and talking, he can spin other Force users around the room and attack their minds.

I still think it's a neck snap sorta fight. Force Bubble sounds like expanded canon or something.

[MindofShadow]

Force Bubble sounds like expanded canon or something.

I think its fan fic to explain something that's never been truly explained (why two force users don't immediately thry and crash the other person with the force).


I can't honestly think of a instance where two powerful experienced force users got dominated by the other using the force.

It seems to be (movie wise and the cartoons I remember) to always be a "GOTCHA" kind of thing that happens mid fight. It is like something has to happen to "distract" one of them and then boom, "force push/grab/lightning" type of situation.

So, head canon wise, I don't see Snoke catching Darth Vader off guard in a arena fight, especially considering it is Snoke's only option.

Plus... does the Arena have a chair? lol

[The Arbiter]

Snoke doesn't need a chair :P

Look, if omni directional force protection techniques are just head canon, then probably Snoke should just break his neck and be done with it.

That sort of thing not happening in films feels more like PIS then anything.

[MichaelC]

I'm not convinced movie force users are capable of that kind of precision while also focusing on not getting chopped to pieces. These aren't mutant telekinetics, these are people who have mastered a mystic art requiring intense concentration to do the more impressive effects.

[The Arbiter]

I'm not convinced movie force users are capable of that kind of precision while also focusing on not getting chopped to pieces. These aren't mutant telekinetics, these are people who have mastered a mystic art requiring intense concentration to do the more impressive effects.

It starts at 100 feet. It's not like Vader is inches away swinging his weapon around.

[BitVyper]

I just assume that such things are easy enough for another force user to counter that they're not really worth bothering with unless one has an overwhelming advantage by way of sheer power. Like if you know that even a marginally weaker force user can turn your force choke into a force neck massage with a little bit of focus, then you're probably still going to try and just stab them with an efficient killing weapon instead of getting into a telekinetically sweaty wrestling match. Snoke may be beyond that; I dunno anything about him.

[wjowski]

Dooku didn't seem to have any problems throwing a chokehold on Obi Wan mid-duel.

The more practical reason is probably that they don't want all the flashy superpowers and such to get in the way of the laser-sword fights. Outside of the movies force-users seem a lot less conservative about tossing people around.

[Mider2009]

Dooku didn't seem to have any problems throwing a chokehold on Obi Wan mid-duel.

The more practical reason is probably that they don't want all the flashy superpowers and such to get in the way of the laser-sword fights. Outside of the movies force-users seem a lot less conservative about tossing people around.

Yup he’s also used lightning during duels

[BitVyper]

Dooku didn't seem to have any problems throwing a chokehold on Obi Wan mid-duel.

And doesn't that seem fairly significant in terms of what it says about Dooku? I mean he comes off as being like one tick below Yoda. And his fights with Dooku were Obi Wan's worst showings in any of the movies, to the point where they feel like jobbing. Like they were all of 20 seconds into their first fight before Dooku was just burning Obi Wan for fun.

But okay, say that force TK offers absolutely no defense against force TK. Then if you're pausing in battle to choke a guy, what stops him from doing the same thing to you? Now you're in a contest of whose lungs will last the longest, which pretty much gets right back to them probably not doing it because it's a messy and ineffective way to try and fight other force users. Unless you're REALLY good at it, so you can just throw it out there in the middle of a swordfight, and quite a bit stronger than the person you're doing it to, like Dooku against Obi Wan. It even makes sense that Sith would generally be better at it.

Also Dooku had a bit of a "people will stop and let me do whatever force things I want" aura. Like Yoda just kind of sits there and keeps locking blades with him while he blatantly focuses elsewhere to drop a column on Anakin and Obi Wan so he can get away.

Edit: Of course I'm pretty sure we KNOW force TK can stop force TK because IIRC, Anakin and Obi Wan had a whole little force arm wrestle in the middle of their fight. That's probably why Dooku only chokes Obi Wan for like half a second before chucking him off, because it's just a quick move he can slip into the fight, not something where he'd be able to continuously hold the guy.

[The Arbiter]

And doesn't that seem fairly significant in terms of what it says about Dooku? I mean he comes off as being like one tick below Yoda. And his fights with Dooku were Obi Wan's worst showings in any of the movies, to the point where they feel like jobbing. Like they were all of 20 seconds into their first fight before Dooku was just burning Obi Wan for fun.

But okay, say that force TK offers absolutely no defense against force TK. Then if you're pausing in battle to choke a guy, what stops him from doing the same thing to you? Now you're in a contest of whose lungs will last the longest, which pretty much gets right back to them probably not doing it because it's a messy and ineffective way to try and fight other force users. Unless you're REALLY good at it, so you can just throw it out there in the middle of a swordfight, and quite a bit stronger than the person you're doing it to, like Dooku against Obi Wan. It even makes sense that Sith would generally be better at it.

Also Dooku had a bit of a "people will stop and let me do whatever force things I want" aura. Like Yoda just kind of sits there and keeps locking blades with him while he blatantly focuses elsewhere to drop a column on Anakin and Obi Wan so he can get away.

Edit: Of course I'm pretty sure we KNOW force TK can stop force TK because IIRC, Anakin and Obi Wan had a whole little force arm wrestle in the middle of their fight. That's probably why Dooku only chokes Obi Wan for like half a second before chucking him off, because it's just a quick move he can slip into the fight, not something where he'd be able to continuously hold the guy.

Problems. This isnt sword fight range. It's 100' away in the Arena. Snoke can exert neck breaking energies near instantly with no gestures, motions or effort.

Other Force users seem to need an accompanying action to start forcing stuff around. Even if there is an interaction, Snoke probably wins a very close quick draw at the bell using the 100'.

[BitVyper]

Yeah I can't speak to what Snoke can even do. I was just responding to the response to my response.

Response.

[The Arbiter]

Yeah I can't speak to what Snoke can even do. I was just responding to the response to my response.

Response.

The trouble with responding to a response to your response instead of responding to all responses, makes the response seem less responsive.



:P

[MindofShadow]

Snoke doesn't need a chair :P

Look, if omni directional force protection techniques are just head canon, then probably Snoke should just break his neck and be done with it.

That sort of thing not happening in films feels more like PIS then anything.

I don't think you can just go "pis" when it is consistent over 9 movies and a long cartoon.

"something" stops insta force destruction between two similarly equal force users. They just never bothered what it was

[MindofShadow]

Dooku didn't seem to have any problems throwing a chokehold on Obi Wan mid-duel.

mid duel is the key though.

He doesn't start by instantly choking him.

It "seems" you have to catch them off guard in some way. That has been consistent throughout all the movies.

only when there is a massive power advantage does that seem to not be the case.