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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Default Diana, Fighting Styles, and Martial Arts

    Over in the controversial opinions thread, there has been an interesting discussion that I think deserve a better showcase.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Something unique, and exotic, distinct to the Amazons, rather than a known method. There's a tendency to fixate on the disciplines from East Asia, when many cultures, even Europeans, developed effective hand to hand techniques. Pre-British-encounter Hawaiians, for example, developed a particularly nasty method that centered on breaking bones.

    Point is, illustrators shouldn't try to mold WW's movements around a known discipline, but make her a master of a system the Amazons developed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Amazons should at least have more than one fighting style given how diverse they should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Pankration should be enough for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I think they could also develop their own fighting styles besides Pankration.
    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I like the idea of using one based on Pankration. But modified to fit the requirements of the Amazons. Pankration is, well, meant for killing your enemy.

    I have to agree on not focusing on eastern techniques. Technically British style boxing counts as a martial art. It's actually quite a powerful striking discipline. Just ask anyone who ever got beat down by Mohammed Ali or Mike Tyson. A novice at Judo, Karate or Kung-fu will lose to an experienced boxer.

    I've personally only studied MACP and MCC. They focus on a mix of disarming and incapacitating opponents, but with a sub-focus on having options for doing so without creating permanent harm.
    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Well, it could kill, but it had a lot of grappling moves as well. And given that grappling techniques are considered very useful in all sorts of fighting with weapons (especially in armour), it could be a good basis.

    The main thing about pankration is that we don't know a lot about how it was done (apart from some descriptions from matches and some pictures on pottery). The movie I think did a rather interesting synthesis of various styles, but I'd like to see some more punching and definitely more grappling with throws and holds for submission.
    There is a very interesting analysis of Wonder Woman's movie fighting styles over on Yotube. Well worth a look, if you haven't seen it.



    If we are to look at pankration images, it seems that the hand strikes are more boxing-style than karate-style, so taking some boxing techniques might make sense. On the other hand, the use of karate (or tae kwon do) style hand strikes doesn't really bother me, because the Amazons might have their own techniques that only partially overlap with historical pankration, and also since they might have developed it on their own for a very long time.

    But you see lots of holds and chokes, so freestyle wrestling should be a natural style to be inspired by when designing how Diana fights. It is also close in and brutal.

    In a way, I'd like Diana (and the rest of the Amazons) to more or less be able to at will switch between three combat styles, both when fighting armed and unarmed. One similar to capoeira or gatka, with lots of rotations, flashiness, and dance-like movements. One a grappling and wrestling style, drawing from pankration and its modern "descendants" like greco-roman and freestyle wrestling. Last one inspired by pankration, muay thai, or the Hawiian style that DrNewGod mentioned: direct, close-in, and brutal.

    All three should be really usable and practical, but in different contexts. The "dance" should be used for multiple opponents, or when the focus is more on protecting yourself than hurting your opponent. The "grappling" to subdue a single opponent. And last the "direct" to kill or maim.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #2
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    Given how diverse the Amazons are (or how diverse I think they should be), it isn't unreasonable to think they'd have more than one fighting style they'd be aware of. They can have martial arts from Europe, Asia and Africa. There are numerous deadly martial arts in Southeast Asia (Bokator, Eskrima and Silat) and a few other deadly ones from Africa as well like Dambe. These would be even more dangerous in the hands of super powered women.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Given how diverse the Amazons are (or how diverse I think they should be), it isn't unreasonable to think they'd have more than one fighting style they'd be aware of. They can have martial arts from Europe, Asia and Africa. There are numerous deadly martial arts in Southeast Asia (Bokator, Eskrima and Silat) and a few other deadly ones from Africa as well like Dambe. These would be even more dangerous in the hands of super powered women.
    A lot of that goes into how the Amazons developed. By most versions, they lost contact with Man's World 3,000 years ago, so there should be plenty of time for them to develop their own styles, and for divergence in Man's World as well for the original styles (like the pankration of classical times).

    To add to that, some of the original Amazon images show them riding, so they need to incorporate mounted fighting as well. Now I want actions scenes with Diana standing in an open-topped car while letting go with bows and arrows, or picking up things from the ground while driving by at speed.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Another fact is that Amazons have had some tribes in Asia, Iran and Eastern Europe. So who knows what that can be mixed into
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  5. #5
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    I can see this going both ways, the amazons could have developed their own styles but their isolation and lack of constant enemies could have insulated them, and rendered their fighting style rather antiquated, however, that is going to be unlikely, even though highly possible (unless they can spy on the outside world).

    As for as Amazon Style is considered, I like the idea, and would like to be based on:

    Pankration or some Greco-Roman Style
    Baguazhang, an internal martial art from China that has one of the best internal/body mechanics structure and designed to fight multiple opponents, and the movements themselves, turn becomes a strike/attack/defend at the same time
    and one high level kicking style regardless where it's from

    If amazons are to transcend, their styles must also be refined to a very high level wherein it is much less dependent on strength and age.

    TT

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    A style being antiquated might not mean it's bad or ineffective: I imagine a classical pankration practitioner could be quite the dangerous opponent. I think the greater risk is that an Amazon style might become more focused on set forms and movements, much like modern sport fencing barely has any relation at all to actual historical fencing with swords, sabers, or rapiers.

    I agree that an Amazon fighting style should include lots of ways to handle larger or stronger opponents. It should also be tightly integrated with "Amazon training" in whatever form or purpose that will take, that's something that really should be brought back in some form.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I don't know despite being peaceful I feel that since Dc generally has them watch wither the Doom Gate or Ares shouldn't they be more willing to developed more styles?
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  8. #8
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    I like a WW who incorporates wrestling moves in her technique.

  9. #9
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    Wonder Woman's fighting style should be focused on subduing people with a minimum of harm to their bodies. In terms of defensive techniques, it should focus more on Dodging and parrying than blocking and tanking.

    Sparring matches should be done in a manner similar to Capoeira, where the goal is to demonstrate skill more so than defeat the foe

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Pankration Is a good base, but I feel it would have evolved into its own unique style in the thousands of years that the Amazons have been isolated. Martial Arts styles evolve over time.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Pankration, lasso-jitsu, boxing/kick-boxing, wrestling, hug-won-do...

  12. #12
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Pankration, lasso-jitsu, boxing/kick-boxing, wrestling, hug-won-do...
    I like that last one

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Why not kiss-boxing or snug-jitsu?
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

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