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  1. #46
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by middenway View Post
    Ah, right. I wanted to check, just so I can safely avoid spoilers.

    I don't remember much noise being made about those first 10 issues of Abe Sapien. I mean, The Drowning, sort of came out of nowhere—it was part of that sudden expansion of the Hellboy Universe that happened following the release of Hellboy: The Companion (the others being Lobster Johnson: The Iron Prometheus, Witchfinder: In the Service of Angels, and B.P.R.D.: 1946)—and the short stories The Haunted Boy, The Abyssal Plain, and The Devil Does Not Jest didn't really have the momentum behind them that suggested further stories like 1946 did.

    However, when Abe Sapien shifted to an ongoing series with the beginning of the Dark and Terrible cycle, I think fans were starving for more Abe. In the two years leading up to the series, we hadn't seen much of him and Dark and Terrible came with the promise of exploring what Abe is. There was even a "31 Days of Abe" promotional month leading up to the series (which ballooned into 34 days by the end).
    Oh, very cool. I never realized how much the Mignolaverse expanded from it's initial start. The way it has been going one could think that Mignola had a plan from the start.

    The advent calendar is pretty funny, I am looking forward to learning more about Abe, because in the Drowning & Other Stories there was one shot where Abe looked very different (the recap page says this took place in Hell on Earth). That weird jellyfish squid thingy has really peaked my interest.

    Thanks again for all the info!

  2. #47
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Okay so I am now on volume 2 of Hell on Earth. Will I ever learn the truth about those aliens from the very beginning?

    I know there is a mini-series that looks at that one particular alien assassin, but do we ever learn if these aliens have their own gods? Or if they were also created by the god that created Earth? Why do they have a interest in Earth?

    Also forgive me for being dense, I may have missed this detail, what is the connection between Hell and Ogdru Jahad? Where does Satan fall into this equation?

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Okay so I am now on volume 2 of Hell on Earth. Will I ever learn the truth about those aliens from the very beginning?

    I know there is a mini-series that looks at that one particular alien assassin, but do we ever learn if these aliens have their own gods? Or if they were also created by the god that created Earth? Why do they have a interest in Earth?
    You'll learn a lot more about them in The Visitor: How & Why He Stayed, but don't expect all your questions to be answered. They leave a lot to your imagination.

    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Also forgive me for being dense, I may have missed this detail, what is the connection between Hell and Ogdru Jahad? Where does Satan fall into this equation?
    They go into this a little in Hellboy in Hell #10. If you're not up to that yet, you may consider this spoilers.

    spoilers:
    Many of the original Watchers that killed Anum for creating the Ogdru Jahad were cast down into Hell. They were its original occupants, led by Pluto. The Watchers remaining on Earth were led by Satan, but they were cast into Hell when they refused to bow to the new race of Man. Satan's gang and Pluto's gang went to war and Satan's won. Pandemonium, the capital of Hell, is built on the broken shoulders of Pluto's gang.
    end of spoilers

  4. #49
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by middenway View Post
    You'll learn a lot more about them in The Visitor: How & Why He Stayed, but don't expect all your questions to be answered. They leave a lot to your imagination.


    They go into this a little in Hellboy in Hell #10. If you're not up to that yet, you may consider this spoilers.

    spoilers:
    Many of the original Watchers that killed Anum for creating the Ogdru Jahad were cast down into Hell. They were its original occupants, led by Pluto. The Watchers remaining on Earth were led by Satan, but they were cast into Hell when they refused to bow to the new race of Man. Satan's gang and Pluto's gang went to war and Satan's won. Pandemonium, the capital of Hell, is built on the broken shoulders of Pluto's gang.
    end of spoilers
    Ahhh, I totally missed that in Hellboy in Hell. So is Satan also a fallen Watcher?

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Ahhh, I totally missed that in Hellboy in Hell. So is Satan also a fallen Watcher?
    Yep, Satan had once been a Watcher.

  6. #51
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by middenway View Post
    Yep, Satan had once been a Watcher.
    Thanks! That clears so much up. I know I am going to have to reread the entire saga again.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Finally finished Hell on Earth!

    What a Finale! The First Angels holding up Pandemonium!

    Kraus learning about Hindu Cosmology!

    Cannot believe how good it was, I was so surprised with the deep Hindu philosophy going on with Sledgehammer, makes me wanna read the mini. I mean the singular self melding with the infinite universe, great stuff.

    The return of Vavara was amazing, the deaths were heartbreaking and the tension just built and built and built.

    Now I'm going to move on to the Abe Sapian solo before moving on to the finale.


    So is the Ogrdu Jahad, only Six in One and not Seven since this one was killed? And they can split off from one another?

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    So is the Ogrdu Jahad, only Six in One and not Seven since this one was killed? And they can split off from one another?
    You'll learn more about that in The Devil You Know.

  9. #54
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by middenway View Post
    You'll learn more about that in The Devil You Know.
    All done, I have finally finished it!

    I binged the Abe Omnis and the Devil You Know, I thought they were amazing.

    However, the Devil You Know felt so decompressed compared to everything else and it didn't really feel like Hellboys climatic battle with Rasputin.

    The funniest thing in the entire series was the vampires lamenting the fact they should have woken up earlier, so damn funny.

    I didn't mind the shocking deaths and revelations, but the Vavara one came out of nowhere. I was scratching my head thinking that I may have missed some foreshadowing somewhere.

    Nevertheless, I loved it. No I will slowly check out all of the miniseries.

    Some questions though, why was Liz in a crystal at the end?

    If Hellboy war reborn in Roger's body how can Hellboy's blood remake the world?

    Did I see Frankenstein in Hypoborea?

    So Abe comes from a priest that didn't give up his faith who turned in to a jellyfish god?

    Why would have have Rasputin given the Baba Yaga a piece of his soul if he can simply be reborn from his kids?
    Not only that, if Vavara wasn't possessed and died before Ragna Rok because of old age would Rasputin be screwed?
    Last edited by charliehustle415; 08-24-2019 at 04:22 PM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    All done, I have finally finished it!

    I binged the Abe Omnis and the Devil You Know, I thought they were amazing.

    However, the Devil You Know felt so decompressed compared to everything else and it didn't really feel like Hellboys climatic battle with Rasputin.

    The funniest thing in the entire series was the vampires lamenting the fact they should have woken up earlier, so damn funny.

    I didn't mind the shocking deaths and revelations, but the Vavara one came out of nowhere. I was scratching my head thinking that I may have missed some foreshadowing somewhere.

    Nevertheless, I loved it. No I will slowly check out all of the miniseries.

    Some questions though, why was Liz in a crystal at the end?

    If Hellboy war reborn in Roger's body how can Hellboy's blood remake the world?

    Did I see Frankenstein in Hypoborea?

    So Abe comes from a priest that didn't give up his faith who turned in to a jellyfish god?

    Why would have have Rasputin given the Baba Yaga a piece of his soul if he can simply be reborn from his kids?
    Not only that, if Vavara wasn't possessed and died before Ragna Rok because of old age would Rasputin be screwed?
    Not really sure why she was in a crystal at the end, but it provides a monolith of the old age for Abe's ancestors to worship. She may not be dead in there, and act as a source of the secret fire.

    Roger's body was destroyed in the final fight with Rasputin. I don't think he was occupying that body when he was closed into the iron maiden. This is borne out by the changing of his colouration in those final pages, similar to how he transformed over the course of In Hell.

    Yes and yes.

    The acorn was tossed into the roots of the world tree. That was, I believe, the fragment that Edward Grey attacked in hell, and the fragment that was resurrected in Varvara's body.

    For sure, but predestination and the end of all things means that Strode would always have exorcised the demon to allow his return.

    In the end, for all his posturing, even Hellboy had no choice about his destiny. It just wasn't what he thought it was.

    That's my take anyways.
    Last edited by zerodemon; 08-24-2019 at 05:52 PM.

  11. #56
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerodemon View Post
    Not really sure why she was in a crystal at the end, but it provides a monolith of the old age for Abe's ancestors to worship. She may not be dead in there, and act as a source of the secret fire.

    Roger's body was destroyed in the final fight with Rasputin. I don't think he was occupying that body when he was closed into the iron maiden. This is borne out by the changing of his colouration in those final pages, similar to how he transformed over the course of In Hell.

    Yes and yes.

    The acorn was tossed into the roots of the world tree. That was, I believe, the fragment that Edward Grey attacked in hell, and the fragment that was resurrected in Varvara's body.

    For sure, but predestination and the end of all things means that Strode would always have exorcised the demon to allow his return.

    In the end, for all his posturing, even Hellboy had no choice about his destiny. It just wasn't what he thought it was.

    That's my take anyways.
    Ahh, thanks for clearing it up for me; I cannot imagine how people kept all this information especially if you started reading from the very beginning.

    Was Hecate given such a place of importance because she is the one that corrupted the Golden people to invite darkness back into the world so with Hellboy she can rid the world of what she wrought?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Ahh, thanks for clearing it up for me; I cannot imagine how people kept all this information especially if you started reading from the very beginning.

    Was Hecate given such a place of importance because she is the one that corrupted the Golden people to invite darkness back into the world so with Hellboy she can rid the world of what she wrought?
    Hecate is an odd creature in the canon. I don't think that so much she was "given" importance, but that this was always her role, just like Hellboy. As either the herald or daughter of Ereshgikal or Ereshgikal itself, she is literally an embodiment of air and darkness. In many mythologies, this Godhead figure is fundamental to the creation of the world and the propagation of life. She's fulfilling her purpose. The idea of her "corruption" of the golden people is really the action that gave the golden people individual power and freedom, much in the same way that the snake presenting the apple to Eve gave her knowledge, shame and freedom.

    The power of the Hellboy mythology is that it works as an analogue to other mythologies in the same way that they work as analogues to one another. If you ever create a D&D world or a fantasy world for writing, doing the mythology work that Mignola, Arcudi et al did works as a fantastic template.

  13. #58
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerodemon View Post
    Hecate is an odd creature in the canon. I don't think that so much she was "given" importance, but that this was always her role, just like Hellboy. As either the herald or daughter of Ereshgikal or Ereshgikal itself, she is literally an embodiment of air and darkness. In many mythologies, this Godhead figure is fundamental to the creation of the world and the propagation of life. She's fulfilling her purpose. The idea of her "corruption" of the golden people is really the action that gave the golden people individual power and freedom, much in the same way that the snake presenting the apple to Eve gave her knowledge, shame and freedom.

    The power of the Hellboy mythology is that it works as an analogue to other mythologies in the same way that they work as analogues to one another. If you ever create a D&D world or a fantasy world for writing, doing the mythology work that Mignola, Arcudi et al did works as a fantastic template.
    I like this interpretation, this again is very similar to Hindu mythology (which may be apt since Hecate first iteration is very south Asian) where there must be a force of destruction along with a force of creation, so Hecate being destruction and Hellboy creation.

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