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  1. #16
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    For anyone who became a fan in the Post-COIE era and beyond, the thought of Alfred not being Bruce's closest confidant and father-figure who's known him since he was a child is almost unthinkable. Its kinda hard to believe that for the vast majority of Batman's history so far, that wasn't the case.
    Well, no, not anyone because I started reading in 2015, and started with the 90s Robin series, and it's not unthinkable to me.

    I also like the idea, which is supported in canon, that Batman, when he starts out, is fairly optimistic and nowhere near the dark and depressed person he becomes later in life.
    I like that one, too.

  2. #17
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    Yeah Dick never made him “better” from grim and dark really. Robin was created just because the writers feel Golden Age Batman was lonely and needed someone to talk to. Back then his trauma wasn’t even his parents dying it’s loneliness and losing purpose in life. I like that It’s being Batman for so long and dealing with fucked up people without rewards plus his sons dying is why he’s more and more depressed. It’s just cheap and unfair to other heroes whose parents died too when he had Alfred and Leslie and friends yet “my parents are dead” is his greatest trauma.
    Last edited by nhienphan2808; 06-19-2019 at 08:56 AM.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    The scenario that Dick made him better from grim and dark I think was from Morrison or whoever it was the first time who tried to explain how Batman who started out with loneliness and darkness of the Miller Year One can accommodate a kid as Robin while keeping Dick's positivity as an adult and Batman's pretty much normal mental condition intact up until Jason died.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhienphan2808 View Post
    Yeah Dick never made him “better” from grim and dark really. Robin was created just because the writers feel Golden Age Batman was lonely and needed someone to talk to. Back then his trauma wasn’t even his parents dying it’s loneliness and losing purpose in life. I like that It’s being Batman for so long and dealing with fucked up people without rewards plus his sons dying is why he’s more and more depressed. It’s just cheap and unfair to other heroes whose parents died too when he had Alfred and Leslie and friends yet “my parents are dead” is his greatest trauma.
    So Grant Morrison I think once made this statement that the night after Batman first took down criminals, Bruce Wayne probably had the most peaceful sleep of his life since his parents died.

    I can buy that Bruce suffered from trauma growing up. But being Batman was a way of putting the trauma of his parent's death behind him and channeling that into something positive. In the beginning, Bruce truly believed that as Batman, he could clean up Gotham and end the kind of crime that took his parent's lives. But as the years wore on, not only was he not able to permanently eradicate crime in Gotham (which is an impossible task anyway), but he had to deal with a new breed of psychopath, most notably the Joker, the added trauma of friends and partners being killed and maimed, and of course the simple physical and mental damage that a never-ending war against crime inflicted on him. All of which made him a far more damaged and disturbed man, albeit someone who still retained a kernel of the early optimism and hope within him.

  5. #20
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    Also in Golden/Silver Age the reason Bruce ever put guns down and vowed to not kill is Robin, a child. It was a editorial decision to pull kid audiences, but at the same time, Dick just naturally became just that big, as big as Batman's no kill rule. This has changed to Alfred or just Bruce himself or whoever that came after Golden Age Dick, because to DC a kid can't take so much of Elite Billionaire Bruce Wayne and Batman's humanity and priority. But it's also the reason they will never be able to erase that and they hated Dick Grayson ever since. Batman, in his first creation, was already about his children, and less about being someone else's child. When he's the latter i feel his character weaker. That's Superman.
    Last edited by nhienphan2808; 06-20-2019 at 08:51 PM.

  6. #21
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    I’d be really interested in an “earth 2” Batman comic. Taking place in the 1940s where Dick is still Robin, Bruce does not have a ‘no kill rule.’ Is actually married to Selena, with Helena instead of Damian. And has Alfred Beagle, who he met as an adult, around instead of Alfred Pennyworth. But for earth 0, I very much prefer Alfred being Bruce’s father figure.

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