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  1. #136
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Birthright might be my favorite origin if Waid had stuck the landing. The idea of Lex attacking Metropolis with a holographic Kryptonian army just doesn't work for me, as far as origins go. But the first half is some of the best Superman/Clark Kent stuff I've ever read. I adore that first half of the series!

    Morrison's Action origin is my favorite, hands down, but if Waid had pulled off a better ending for Birthright it'd give Morrison a real fun for his money.
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  2. #137
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Birthright might be my favorite origin if Waid had stuck the landing. The idea of Lex attacking Metropolis with a holographic Kryptonian army just doesn't work for me, as far as origins go. But the first half is some of the best Superman/Clark Kent stuff I've ever read. I adore that first half of the series!

    Morrison's Action origin is my favorite, hands down, but if Waid had pulled off a better ending for Birthright it'd give Morrison a real fun for his money.
    As I said, Birthright is flawed. On top of the holographic attack, the whole "soul vision" business seemed way too preachy to me.

    But even with its flaws, it's very well written I think and you can tell Mark Waid cares about the character.

  3. #138
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    Birthright is my favorite contemporary origin, which I feel bad about saying now considering how mad I was that it usurped Man of Steel as the definitive origin at the time.

    But Birthright not only checked all the boxes, but it also had real emotional depth and was well-written. Not everything was perfect, but it's the best out of the bunch IMO.
    I think this is the only reason it never caught on. People were pissed it replaced MOS. DC has this real bad habit of dropping things on people at the last minute. "Oh, BTW, this is meant to replace the already existing origin". They pulled the same stunt with New 52. Which makes me think it was a last minute decision to begin with.
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  4. #139
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I was very into Birthright being the official origin because Man of Steel wasn't at all appropriate for what they were trying to do with the regular books. A fitting origin is better off canon while a "better" origin can merely be its own thing. BR is sappy and incredibly passive but to my own surprise, I guess it's my favorite. It covers more of the character than Man and Superman. Morrison's run was beautiful but really a mess when it comes to rebooting the character.

    Secret Origin by Johns wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible. Year One #1 is terrible. I can't finish it tbh. Still no reason to drag Miller personally but I can only hope to tolerate the next two issues. But for any synergy with Bendis, again, that would be fine with me. Whether or not Jor El goes to the past, I think that relationship and the Legion relationship as defined by Johns are defunct.
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  5. #140
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    As I said, Birthright is flawed. On top of the holographic attack, the whole "soul vision" business seemed way too preachy to me.

    But even with its flaws, it's very well written I think and you can tell Mark Waid cares about the character.
    I never took the soul vision in a literal, religion-y way. To me, it was Clark viewing energy wavelengths he didn't have names for because humanity hadn't discovered them yet, and making up names he thought sounded appropriate. So to that end I was never bothered by it. It was just Clark looking at.....some kind of bio-electromagnetic energy?

    But I can totally see why people would take it a different way and have a problem with it.

    I think the whole narrative starts to fall apart once Clark reaches Metropolis but its still one of the best origins and Waid, you could tell he was all in and really feeling the story.

    For what its worth I can nitpick even Morrison's origin so its not like Im really knocking Waid yknow?
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  6. #141
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I think this is the only reason it never caught on. People were pissed it replaced MOS. DC has this real bad habit of dropping things on people at the last minute. "Oh, BTW, this is meant to replace the already existing origin". They pulled the same stunt with New 52. Which makes me think it was a last minute decision to begin with.
    From what I understand, Birthright (as initially conceived) was supposed to be an Ultimate-type story that setup a Superman in the contemporary world. The editor at the time (who I believe was Berganza but someone correct me if that's wrong) began telling the other writers to start referencing Birthright in their stories, and also told the artists to use Birthright as the model for Krypton and Kryptonians. Then we got the shoehorned "Futuresmiths" #200 issue in which Superman "chooses" (?) the Birthright timeline. Then Mark Waid came out and said it was canon. It was all a confusing mess, because while Birthright was good it significantly contradicted Superman's post-Crisis continuity (not to mention that it was clearly supposed to be set in the present) and when you asked anyone at DC who frequented the message boards at the time how it all worked, they would usually give you the runaround. Then Birthright was replaced 2 years later by the changes in Infinite Crisis, which itself wasn't fully told until 4 years later in Secret Origin, which was wiped out less than a year after it's final issue was published with The New 52.

    When you break it down like that, it's easy to see how Birthright never caught on and why it was (at least initially) reviled by many fans.
    Last edited by kingaliencracker; 06-24-2019 at 12:14 PM.

  7. #142
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Considering how wildly different fan opinions are I'm not sure if DC wouldn't walk out of that discussion more confused than before.

    I actually think the "best" origin we've gotten is Johns' Secret Origin. It was an awful story, poorly written and lacking any real depth or personality. It was just a bullet list of things that happened in Clark's life. And that's why I think it works. You could take virtually any version of Superman and plug SO in as Clark's origin and it'll (more or less) work. As a story it's terrible but it *does* balance a lot of differing elements between different eras and combines them into one relatively solid timeline, and its lack of personality means it wont contradict the current writer's vision too much. And there's plenty of blank space to work new aspects and ideas in.

    I enjoy almost every other origin more than SO, as a story. But as a framework to build the "current" Superman around, it's effective.
    Yeah SO is basically as inoffensive a story as you can get imo. It does nothing really great, but it keeps all the important bits so better writers can flesh it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I was very into Birthright being the official origin because Man of Steel wasn't at all appropriate for what they were trying to do with the regular books. A fitting origin is better off canon while a "better" origin can merely be its own thing. BR is sappy and incredibly passive but to my own surprise, I guess it's my favorite. It covers more of the character than Man and Superman. Morrison's run was beautiful but really a mess when it comes to rebooting the character.

    Secret Origin by Johns wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible. Year One #1 is terrible. I can't finish it tbh. Still no reason to drag Miller personally but I can only hope to tolerate the next two issues. But for any synergy with Bendis, again, that would be fine with me. Whether or not Jor El goes to the past, I think that relationship and the Legion relationship as defined by Johns are defunct.
    Which sucks imo, I like the Legion being a part of Clark’s early years and I don’t like Bendis getting rid of it again, if that indeed is the plan. I doubt Bendis will make any reference to Year One though, that take doesn’t really seem to gel with how Bendis sees Superman.

  8. #143
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    I think a lot of people include the Man of Steel movie and the Smallville tv show when they talk about origin overkill. Smallville might not be this decade but since it was a weekly look at how we get to Superman that lasted 10 seasons, it casts a longer shadow in the "didn't we just see this" category.
    Well that's on them. TV/Movies are a different medium from comic books, don't get upset that the comic books are doing another origin just because you saw ten years of it on TV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    But Elseworlds do change the facts- that is sort of the whole point of them. American Alien as an origin works because we know it isn't supposed to spit out the same Superman at the end. Same with Year One. It's why I don't have the same hate for them as origin stories others do. I want to see how things happened that shaped this version of Superman into the character he'll become. Same as Man of Steel (2013 needed to show me Jonathan's different persona, Clark's fear of being discovered, etc; to make me see why Cavill's version wasn't Dean Cain's, Chris Reeve's or the guy in the comics.
    I meant they don't change mainstream continuity. You're not left figuring out how this changes everything that came before or coming after because they're self contained.

  9. #144

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    Really loved it. There were a few minor flaws regarding consistency with the writing and the art ... but those were very minor.

    Narration was fantastic. Very operatic (good old Frank!). And there were some moments, particularly in the dialogue, when the tone shifted from serious to humorous then back to serious. The love between Clark and Lana was wonderful, very much captured the whole 'young love' or 'first love' atmosphere

    Art was a great match for the writing. Sometimes serious, sometimes quirky, always interesting. Trademark JRJR! (And btw Danny Miki's use of colour was a visual treat)

    What I really liked was Clark's moments of heroism. They were very grounded and gritty. Not the traditional stopping a vehicle from an accident or saving the girl form falling out of a building ... No. He was standing up to thugs. Pure and simple. Back to his roots in a modern context. Good stuff.

    And what is up with the controversy about Clark saving Lana from the attempted assault at the hands of the thugs? Why are some people so upset with that? Superman saved a girl from getting raped. It was an exciting moment of sheer dramatic heroism. Frankly, that was the best part of the story.

    Anyway, can't wait for issue 2. Clark in a sea adventure with a mermaid ... doesn't get much cooler than that!

  10. #145

  11. #146
    Incredible Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friendly-fire-press View Post
    And what is up with the controversy about Clark saving Lana from the attempted assault at the hands of the thugs? Why are some people so upset with that? Superman saved a girl from getting raped. It was an exciting moment of sheer dramatic heroism. Frankly, that was the best part of the story.
    I'm not sure either. I think it's maybe because Miller plays on these tropes frequently? I don't think that's an awful thing, but it feels like people don't like realistic dangers in their comicbooks.
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  12. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by dimo1 View Post
    Ahem, Miki‘s the inker.
    Oops. My bad. To reiterate: Miki's inks are top-notch and Sinclair's colours are a visual treat. (I hate it when I stuff up)

    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    I'm not sure either. I think it's maybe because Miller plays on these tropes frequently? I don't think that's an awful thing, but it feels like people don't like realistic dangers in their comicbooks.
    Yeah. I guess it's just a matter of the old saying, "To each his own."

  13. #148
    Spectacular Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Year One #1 is terrible. I can't finish it tbh.
    I came to that conclusion before the book was out. 1)I think Miller is a terrible choice to write a Superman book (and just about any other super-hero book at this point in his career) and 2)I absolutely cannot stand Romita Jr's artwork. He really ranks near the lowest spot on my artist meter (close to Liefield in my opinion). I personally thought the two of them working on this book was a disaster waiting to happen. Judging by the preliminary artwork shown and the reviews I've been reading so far, it looks like I was correct.

    It's really sad, because I've been a DC comic fan for over 4 decades and would snap up pretty much any/every book about Batman and Superman over the years, but now I'm finding myself skipping on many titles. Maybe I'm just too old for this s**t anymore. Still, I love my DC characters and they will go to the grave with me as being a HUGE part of my life. I've been a collector of comics, toys, etc for most of my life and the majority of those collections have always been DC. My 6 year old son is also a huge fan of DC thanks to growing up with an Uber-Fanboy father of all things DC!!

    With all that said... I cannot bring myself to read a book that I know is going to do nothing but disappoint me. I hate the writer, I hate the artist. Miller has done some good things, but I feel those days are long past. Romita Jr is just terrible. I cringe looking at most things he draws. He definitely didn't get his talent from his father.

  14. #149
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    I liked it. I liked Miller's take on Clark's youth and high school years. Usually it's either glossed over (MOS, BR) or completely idyllic (For All Seasons). To my surprise, Miller somehow managed to find a middle ground between his "grim 'n' gritty" take on just about everything and the aforementioned idyllic view of a typical small Midwestern town.

    And for those of you who don't believe things like what almost happened to Lana happen in small town's such as this, I hate to burst your bubble, but they do. In fact, a kid who I went to grade school with hired the guy I sat next to during lunch in high school to help kill his parents and are both now serving life sentences. So so much for the idyllic Midwest.

    And count me as among those intrigued as to where Clark's Navy adventures will take him. As has already been said, there are very few surprises in Superman origin stories anymore, and the fact that this has never been a facet of past origins, I'm super curious as to where this is going to go. If I had to guess, Clark'll soon realize that the kind of good he wants to do will just never be possible when hobbled by the restraints of military life and make his way to college not long after for a journalism degree.

    And speaking of past origins, I for one, was thrilled when BR was announced as the replacement origin for MOS. There were just so many things I detested about MOS I couldn't even begin. Waid injected a lot more warmth into Clark's formative years than Byrne did. In fact, not only did I feel Byrne made Krypton cold and sterile, but also all of Supes' beginning years as a superhero. I also vastly preferred Waid's characterizations. Lois was tough, but also stood up to bullies. And the idea that Lex was just so smart that his fascination with aliens was just to find someone he could relate to was brilliant.

    As far as Johns' SO, while I liked a lot of what it attempted to do, similar to MOS, I just felt it was a really cold retelling. I think about the only two parts I really liked was the reinclusion of the LOS into his teen years and the hilariously mundane origin of the Parasite.
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  15. #150

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    Just interesting to notice that it seems to be one of those books with mixed receptions. You either like it or you don't.

    Newsarama gave it two very different reviews. One of their reviewers liked it

    https://www.newsarama.com/45203-best...ear-one-1.html

    The other one didn't

    https://www.newsarama.com/45686-best...ne-1-3-10.html

    Somewhat appropriate since that's how the comic community in general seemed to respond.

    I guess that's also the way with Frank and John (usually, anyway). Some like them, some don't. Oh well. All good.

    Incidentally, regarding the oversized format, I'm not sure that was necessary. I think the book would've looked just as good (if not better) if it had been presented in regular comic book size.
    Last edited by friendly-fire-press; 07-04-2019 at 05:17 AM.

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