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  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    It is when he is able to outrun bullets or shrug off beng hit by a train. Either Clark is undercutting the team by playing at a small fraction of his potential or he is Labron James going full out against grade schoolers.

    If the Smallville team loses a game by 2 points, is it because only using superpowers would have let them win or is it that another fully himan player giving it 100% (because he isn't hiding powers) might have given them enough of an edge to flip the score?

    Look at it this way, you can have fun racing a person as fit as yourself and knowing you are both giving it your all. How much fun can you really have if all the other runners are pre-schoolers? Is it really a win if the other guy never stood a sliver of a chance? Is it really a great time if you are constantly trying to decide if you are handicapping yourself to even the odds or just letting the other guy win?
    I think people completely overlook the moral of Clark playing football in MAN OF STEEL. It wasn't a good use of his powers. That's the point. This is what Pa relays to him when, after the best game of his high school career, and why Pa takes this time to reveal to him that he's not human.

    I never understood this idea that somehow Superman as a baby is just supposed to be a demigod who automatically knows right from wrong. Yet many in this group will turn around and argue that the Kents should die because it demonstrates to Superman that he can't save everyone. No wonder why Superman has been such a mess.

    Sorry for the rant, and it wasn't directed at you specifically. I just get frustrated sometimes.

  2. #182
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    I wasn't the ethics as ethics I was stressing. Although part of my enjoyment of Superman is that he isn't Peter Parker. I like that Superman's ethics are as super as everything else. Not because it is a Kryptonian thing to be more moral, but just that as a sheer luck thing the sole survivor of the planet is more Ghandi/Mother Theresa than "Joe up the block" when it comes to his natural moral compass.

    But the main point is that I can't see how Clark is having fun competing at things where he can just win without the slightest effort. Forget the ethics. Just picture how much fun it would be to play darts with your friends if you were guaranteed to hit the center of the target everytime regardless of handicap and they weren't. Or to play mini-golf if every turn started with your ball on the edge of the cup and your friends had to play from the actual starting points. I think I'd be bored as hell playing if the only way not to win was to sabotage myself everytime.

  3. #183
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I don't come at it from any ethics point of view whatsoever. I mean, maybe that would be a low priority concern for Jonathan and Martha. But the main concerns are simple. He could be outed, and he could accidentally hurt someone. Those to me are the reasons why Jonathan and Martha would, in any continuity where Clark had enhanced strength and durability from a young age, not even considering other powers, be forced to simply forbid Clark to play competitive sports.
    They did chastise him afterwards, didn't they? They used it as a learning experience.
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  4. #184
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Yeah, they chastised him, but my argument is that they just wouldn't allow it, period. It wouldn't get to that point. It's just too dangerous a situation to even entertain. Again this with the understanding I'm only speaking of origins in which he has powers at that age. This wasn't much of an issue in the 90s, since he didn't have any back then.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  5. #185
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    I wasn't the ethics as ethics I was stressing. Although part of my enjoyment of Superman is that he isn't Peter Parker. I like that Superman's ethics are as super as everything else. Not because it is a Kryptonian thing to be more moral, but just that as a sheer luck thing the sole survivor of the planet is more Ghandi/Mother Theresa than "Joe up the block" when it comes to his natural moral compass.

    But the main point is that I can't see how Clark is having fun competing at things where he can just win without the slightest effort. Forget the ethics. Just picture how much fun it would be to play darts with your friends if you were guaranteed to hit the center of the target everytime regardless of handicap and they weren't. Or to play mini-golf if every turn started with your ball on the edge of the cup and your friends had to play from the actual starting points. I think I'd be bored as hell playing if the only way not to win was to sabotage myself everytime.
    Heh, I was just reading how Kevin Durant had little joy after winning two titles, so I can't really rebut this point.

    But I guess Byrne's point was that Clark was enjoying being the BMOC.

  6. #186
    Fantastic Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    I can totally understand a young Clark wanting to be a part of a team and wanting to participate in something he is interested in, be it a sport, writing, drawing, debating, or whatever the competition is. However like others have said, how much fun could it actually be if its like competing with a bunch of toddlers!? Putting ethics aside, would anyone enjoy competing in a 100 meter dash if you were only competing with 3 year olds?? That's basically what Clark would be doing every time he stepped on a football field. He would either hold back and purposely let the other team win (which would suck for his teammates) or he could play well enough to win, which would then bring him to the ethical dilemma of wondering if he unfairly applied his abilities to win a competition. Either way it doesn't seem like it would be very fun for him.
    Competing in something that he doesn't have an unfair advantage over would seem like a better thing for him to do....being an artist, playing an instrument, debate team, etc.

  7. #187
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Something hit me as to why I don't hate Frank Miller's SUPERMAN: YEAR ONE part one. But in a weird way.

    If you take out the superhuman aspects, this could easily read as JONATHAN's origin story.

    I totally could see this as a tale from Pa Kent's past. He definitely play football and he definitely would join the military to see the world.

    Of course, in my headcanon, young Serviceman Kent would head abroad and get stuck in a bunch of NATO missions with a young Agent Pennyworth.

    But yeah, definitely picking up issue #2 and see if this vibe continues.

  8. #188
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    So I was thinking about the football issue again, and I wondered maybe the appeal to playing football for Clark is that he's forced to hide his abilities throughout his entire life, and football was a way for him to show a tiny fraction of his abilities, not to mention being in the spotlight after trying to blend into the crowd.

    Byrne didn't go into depth with this topic (it got a few panels on a few pages), but who knows? Maybe Byrne Clark was kind of like the Clark from the 1977 Superman movie, got tired of all of the jocks picking on him, and so he decided to join the football team and show off a little bit.

  9. #189
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    So I was thinking about the football issue again, and I wondered maybe the appeal to playing football for Clark is that he's forced to hide his abilities throughout his entire life, and football was a way for him to show a tiny fraction of his abilities, not to mention being in the spotlight after trying to blend into the crowd.

    Byrne didn't go into depth with this topic (it got a few panels on a few pages), but who knows? Maybe Byrne Clark was kind of like the Clark from the 1977 Superman movie, got tired of all of the jocks picking on him, and so he decided to join the football team and show off a little bit.
    Part of that may have been because he wanted to impress Lana a little bit. She was a cheerleader for the team, right?
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  10. #190
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    Part of that may have been because he wanted to impress Lana a little bit. She was a cheerleader for the team, right?
    In the movie? Yeah. Clark, I think, was the football team's equipment manager and wanted to go to a party with Lana, but the bullies on the team made him miss his ride by creating a mess Clark had to clean up. Out of frustration, he ended up punting a football into orbit.

    In Byrne's comic? I think she might've been pictured as a cheerleader in the background of one of the panels, but I can't say for sure.

  11. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    I wasn't the ethics as ethics I was stressing. Although part of my enjoyment of Superman is that he isn't Peter Parker. I like that Superman's ethics are as super as everything else. Not because it is a Kryptonian thing to be more moral, but just that as a sheer luck thing the sole survivor of the planet is more Ghandi/Mother Theresa than "Joe up the block" when it comes to his natural moral compass.

    But the main point is that I can't see how Clark is having fun competing at things where he can just win without the slightest effort. Forget the ethics. Just picture how much fun it would be to play darts with your friends if you were guaranteed to hit the center of the target everytime regardless of handicap and they weren't. Or to play mini-golf if every turn started with your ball on the edge of the cup and your friends had to play from the actual starting points. I think I'd be bored as hell playing if the only way not to win was to sabotage myself everytime.
    There are additional benefits to sports other than just competition and winning. There's being part of a team, the popularity, the glorification, the stature. Even if Clark didn't have fun playing actual football because of how easy it was for him, it's probable he enjoyed the other perks of it.

  12. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickWJ324 View Post
    I can totally understand a young Clark wanting to be a part of a team and wanting to participate in something he is interested in, be it a sport, writing, drawing, debating, or whatever the competition is. However like others have said, how much fun could it actually be if its like competing with a bunch of toddlers!? Putting ethics aside, would anyone enjoy competing in a 100 meter dash if you were only competing with 3 year olds?? That's basically what Clark would be doing every time he stepped on a football field. He would either hold back and purposely let the other team win (which would suck for his teammates) or he could play well enough to win, which would then bring him to the ethical dilemma of wondering if he unfairly applied his abilities to win a competition. Either way it doesn't seem like it would be very fun for him.
    Competing in something that he doesn't have an unfair advantage over would seem like a better thing for him to do....being an artist, playing an instrument, debate team, etc.
    But let's say I'm really, REALLY good at football and really, REALLY enjoy it. But let's say I'm only moderately good at writing or drawing, and I'm so-so towards it. Even with an unfair advantage, wouldn't you prefer to do what you love and are interested in, versus something you're not really passionate about?

  13. #193
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Panels from YO #2:

    "Clark Kent ventures to Atlantis in SUPERMAN: YEAR ONE #2! "







    https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1152634509805834240

  14. #194
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Cool stuff, I'm surprised he puts on the suit this early, I thought for sure it wouldn't be till the very end of issue #3. The mermaids and Atlantis look awesome.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  15. #195
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    That looks kinda cool. Is the purple haired mermaid Lori I wonder?

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