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  1. #61
    Maintaining Status Q _Feely_'s Avatar
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    This was terrible.

    I've waited over half my life for this book.

    Disappointed is an understatement.

  2. #62
    Fantastic Member qwertyuiop1998's Avatar
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    I personally think this is a good story

    Though still can't accept JRL's artwork but the story surprisely not so bad( I.E, Miler surprisely not bring his "personal style" a typical superman story at least for now)
    "Dangerous Zombie! Transform!! Click And Load! Buggle UP! Danger! Danger! Death The Crisis! Dangerous Zombie!" Kamen Rider Gemn
    (In first he's mysterious and evil and now he's psycho and crazy and insane and evil AND "The Meme Lord"LOL.)

  3. #63

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    so how do they handle Clark getting a buzz cut when first joining the navy? lol.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    Again, I am not talking about DKSA and ASBAR. Miller's career is way bigger and more important than prequels and sequels to DKR, and I'd say that ASBAR (which is probably one of his worst works, or at least an unsuccessful but ultimately harmless experiment) is simply not comparable to his other works. He wrote about minorities, anarchism against the system, crazy US president who are also terrorists, strong female characters, crazy politicians who foreshadow Trump. He's an extremely complex writer and stating that he's just into alpha-male, imperialistic types is - I repeat it - overly simplistic.
    And Miller's work has changed over time. Why defend him using works he did over 20 years ago?

    His work is anti-establishment and frequently anti-government but his post-911 output is reactionary as hell, even if some of it is entertaining. He says he's no longer in the mood he was when he wrote Holy Terror but it's still pretty bad he wrote racist propaganda because he got mad about 911.

    If Clark rejects being part of the Navy in the next issue I'll acknowledge Miller did something right but right now I'm not hopeful.

  5. #65
    Spectacular Member Man_of_Tomorrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    so how do they handle Clark getting a buzz cut when first joining the navy? lol.
    We will learn in the next issue. This issue ends with Clark enlisting.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    And Miller's work has changed over time. Why defend him using works he did over 20 years ago?
    .
    For the very same reasons I think that it doesn't make sense to criticize his Superman Year One story purely based on ASBAR and DKSA. I know his works - almost all of them (and a lot of his detractors don't, apparently; and no, checking Wikipedia doesn't count) and I think that he's too complex and interesting a writer to dismiss him as the FASCIST!!1! who uses RAPE!1! in his stories and considers WOMEN INFERIOR TO MEN!!! and writes SUPERMAN AS A PSYCHO!!!1!. Even if some clickbait sites are supporting this theory (and even if the ridiculous, overblown "Lana is raped" thing speaks for itself).
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

  7. #67
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    I'm looking forward to Clark joining the Marines because whilst it's horribly contradictory to everything the character represents and an endorsement of a horrible institution it will at least be weird and probably entertaining.
    ...the Marines are a horrible institution? Really? What's wrong with our armed forces?

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I don't think this book would be getting the criticism it's getting if it weren't written by Miller. I think people are coming into it with their own Miller goggles on. To say I disagree with Miller's politics would be an understatement. But this got me curious and, outside of the bad dialogue, I don't think this was really all that different than any other Superman origin we've seen before. The going off to the Navy part was the only real major deviation from the norm I think we see here. Put it this way: If this were a mainstream Superman origin written by someone else but with all the same beats, would anyone really notice? Or complain? Lana got more screentime in this than she does in most re-tellings of his origin. Yes, the dialogue is hookey and there are a few clunker lines but I don't see that much difference between this and most other adaptations. The attempted rape scene seems like the only major difference here. And even that was way overplayed by others than the book itself did. The only real problem I see, outside of the dialogue, is Martha. Miller DOES have a problem with portraying women as "holding men back" so to speak. And that is a legitimate criticism here. He did much better with Sgt. Essen in Batman's YO but that was also over 30 years ago too. Martha does come across, at least early on, as somewhat sympathetic. But he also makes up for it with Lana. Who comes across as fairly strong on her own. Like I said, I think if this were written by anyone else it wouldn't be getting the criticism it's getting. And I think if some of the dialogue were better, no one would notice all that much.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  9. #69
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    He shouldn't write what Waid did already but he shouldn't have written another Superman origin story period, especially one that begins in Smallville. Batman: Year One starts not with the Wayne's dying but with Bruce coming back to Gotham and the story is a lot better for it.
    First, we already got one origin story this year that skips Smallville and goes straight to Metropolis, it's called Man and Superman (and it's really good too!).

    Secondly, why shouldn't he have written another Superman origin story? Just because we already have several doesn't matter, and just because some of us are tired of them also doesn't matter. The only two things that matter is that Miller wants to do the origin story and there's an audience for it. In this case both of those things are met.

    (For the record I haven't read this yet, I'm currently reading through the reviews in this thread and considering if this is worth picking up in installments now or just waiting for the collected edition later; two pages in and I kind of like what I'm hearing so far).

  10. #70
    Fantastic Member dimo1's Avatar
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    @superduperman

    Right, and if people‘d just read comics as entertainment we‘d not have overblown discussions about nonexistent rape scenes or being reactionary because you join the forces.

    Sorry, this takes the fun out of comics, and I do love checking discussions or different interpretations, but reading too much into something is frustrating.

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    First, we already got one origin story this year that skips Smallville and goes straight to Metropolis, it's called Man and Superman (and it's really good too!).

    Secondly, why shouldn't he have written another Superman origin story? Just because we already have several doesn't matter, and just because some of us are tired of them also doesn't matter. The only two things that matter is that Miller wants to do the origin story and there's an audience for it. In this case both of those things are met.

    (For the record I haven't read this yet, I'm currently reading through the reviews in this thread and considering if this is worth picking up in installments now or just waiting for the collected edition later; two pages in and I kind of like what I'm hearing so far).
    The irony is, we still haven't gotten his Rebirth origin yet. Something occurred to me the other day: This far along in New 52, three years, we'd gotten Superman's New 52 origin written by Greg Pak. There are all kinds of theories on the main DC board about some sort of upcoming reboot and I kind of wonder if they aren't putting it off until after that. I think DC knows how sick of reboots everyone is. Especially in regards to Superman. This sort of seems like a sympathy gig for Miller. And if it happens to turn out good, great! But I don't think DC is coming into this expecting it to redefine the character the way his Batman run did 30 years ago.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    For the very same reasons I think that it doesn't make sense to criticize his Superman Year One story purely based on ASBAR and DKSA. I know his works - almost all of them (and a lot of his detractors don't, apparently; and no, checking Wikipedia doesn't count) and I think that he's too complex and interesting a writer to dismiss him as the FASCIST!!1! who uses RAPE!1! in his stories and considers WOMEN INFERIOR TO MEN!!! and writes SUPERMAN AS A PSYCHO!!!1!. Even if some clickbait sites are supporting this theory (and even if the ridiculous, overblown "Lana is raped" thing speaks for itself).
    It's not stupid to use Miller's other works with Superman in them to criticise a book about the exact same Superman. And I still have no idea why we needed an attempted gang rape scene in what is otherwise a fairly tame book.

    I don't think that everything Miller writes now is irredeemable garbage and think the Linkara-esque view of his more recent works (other than Holy Terror) is obnoxious and fanboyish in the worst way. But his diehard fans who think he's not got reactionary politics or messed up views on gender all because of some of his works that are now older than members of this message board are stretching pretty hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    ...the Marines are a horrible institution? Really? What's wrong with our armed forces?
    They're not my armed forces lol and I'm not going to derail the thread by talking about American war crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Secondly, why shouldn't he have written another Superman origin story? Just because we already have several doesn't matter, and just because some of us are tired of them also doesn't matter. The only two things that matter is that Miller wants to do the origin story and there's an audience for it. In this case both of those things are met.
    Because the Superman origin story has been told countless times to a ridiculous extent (literally the only solo Superman movie this decade will be an origin story) and this Smallville chapter doesn't change much to be worthwhile. I'm sure the underwater Marine one next time will be different but this issue was a waste.

  13. #73
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    This was certainly a better origin than some of the mainstream ones we've gotten in the last few years.
    Mind if I ask which mainstream origin stories you think it's better than? Having read a few it'd help me decide on the "buy now" vs "buy later" debate I'm having with myself.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Feely_ View Post
    This was terrible.

    I've waited over half my life for this book.

    Disappointed is an understatement.
    ...you waited half your life for Frank Miller to write Superman? Why? I would’ve thought Miller’s modern work would’ve made anyone cautious about him taking on Superman. He’s clearly well past his prime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    ...the Marines are a horrible institution? Really? What's wrong with our armed forces?
    Are you seriously asking? Because the answer is “a ton”. The Marines aren’t out there “fighting for freedom” right now, and American intervention overseas has been a non-stop global joke since Iraq.

  15. #75
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    The irony is, we still haven't gotten his Rebirth origin yet. Something occurred to me the other day: This far along in New 52, three years, we'd gotten Superman's New 52 origin written by Greg Pak. There are all kinds of theories on the main DC board about some sort of upcoming reboot and I kind of wonder if they aren't putting it off until after that. I think DC knows how sick of reboots everyone is. Especially in regards to Superman. This sort of seems like a sympathy gig for Miller. And if it happens to turn out good, great! But I don't think DC is coming into this expecting it to redefine the character the way his Batman run did 30 years ago.
    I thought the Rebirth origin was just the old pre-Flashpoint origin again?

    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    They're not my armed forces lol and I'm not going to derail the thread by talking about American war crimes.
    Meh, I'd lay the war crimes more at the feet of the politicians deciding where/who we attack than the soldiers, and even if it were the soldiers it'd be a few bad apples and not a fault of the organization, but that's just me. I'm an American, obviously I view them better, like I assume you probably look more favorably on your own country's armed forces. But agreed here's not the place for it.

    Because the Superman origin story has been told countless times to a ridiculous extent (literally the only solo Superman movie this decade will be an origin story) and this Smallville chapter doesn't change much to be worthwhile. I'm sure the underwater Marine one next time will be different but this issue was a waste.
    Again, as long as it's a story the writer wants to tell and there's an audience for it, why does it matter how often it's been retold? Not like you're forced to read every new origin, seeing as it's an isolated thing that has no bearing on any other Superman comic going.

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