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  1. #391

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    I will never understand why some people expect Millerverse to suddenly morph into something different or be just like the comics they already reading. It's been this way from day one. It's like asking JL 3000 or Harley or those comics with a distinctive tone to change its narrative style.

    I like Miller's Clark as well. He reminds me of Morrison's jeans and tee and the Golden Age. The confidence coupled with the desire, and passion and drive to use his gifts from a young age.
    Well said. Quoted for truth.

  2. #392

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    BTW here's a cool interview with JRJR (at one point the possibility of a Superman Year Two is floated but not confirmed ... tho I would LOVE to see that eventuate)




    And here's another example of Danny Miki's wonderful inking


  3. #393
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    This is definitely Romita’s best art in years, props to him. Almost as good as his ASM work with JMS.

  4. #394
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Its worth noting that back during the Golden Age and Silver Age, DC heroes pretty much had no distinct personalities. They all had a generic cookie-cutter 'hero' personality and that was pretty much it. Superman and Batman got along great because they essentially had the same personality, despite their very different backstories.
    It still kind of feels that way. But it's all fine with me. A few stood out during the silver age which would be Spectre and Wonder Woman obviously. I thought Hal Jordan was kind of relatable as a pilot. Batman and Superman were similar but had subtle differences which were part of the charm.

  5. #395
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    That preview is bloody awful. Millers writing is just plain bad. So much repetition even Tom King would sigh.

  6. #396
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    found this to be a pretty bad conclusion...there was a scene with WW that had me cringing.

  7. #397
    Spectacular Member Man_of_Tomorrow's Avatar
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    Upon the first reading it was my least favorite of the three issues.

    I will re-read it, maybe I will change my mind.

  8. #398
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    Horrible issue—probably the worst and most misogynist of the 3 which is really saying something.

    Miller writes Superman like a gamer gate incel. There were a few times when he was going on about how he would “show them” that he actually seemed downright threatening. It was like language you hear from incels who plot revenge on women.

    Miller shows no understanding or appreciation for Clark Kent or Clark’s humanity and it’s never more clear than in this issue.

    The less said about how he handled Lois (who barely even appeared to start with) the better. Her entire purpose in this book is just to be saved and be written in a way that absolutely completely misunderstands her and why she’s attracted to Superman. Miller reduces her to a shallow, mean woman with zero depth. She’s chasing stories but it’s all surface and there is zero understanding of why she does it or that she cares about justice. Miller just doesn’t care. So much for promises of Superman “romancing” her because we sure as hell don’t see that. She never even interacts with Clark Kent nor does she really even speak to Superman directly and it’s both bizarre and crazy. The concerns about Miller being allowed to write Lois Lane are proven 100% on point. He has always hated her, makes not one effort to understand her and clearly has no desire to even try. A disgrace.

    Finally, we get to the truly abysmal way Miller treats Wonder Woman. Much like in Dark Knight Strikes Again, she’s reduced here to a fangirl swooning over Superman and worshipping him as a god. As per usual, it’s beyond clear that Miller sees both Superman and Wonder Woman as some kind of bizarre, shallow god power fantasy. It’s beyond gross. He does her a huge disservice but that’s nothing new.

    This comic is an embarrassment and I genuinely can’t believe DC allowed it to be published. For months now, people have been expressing genuine concern on here for the way Miller treats women and for months those concerns have been dismissed with “wait and see” “give him a chance.” I came. I saw. It was garbage. From the attempted rape in the first issue, to the way Martha was treated, to the way Lori’s sole purpose was to worship Superman as a god (only to never hear from them again) , to now the nasty treatment of Lois and the way he AGAIN treated Wonder Woman. The treatment of women in this series is abysmal and embarrassing.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 10-16-2019 at 07:08 AM.

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    found this to be a pretty bad conclusion...there was a scene with WW that had me cringing.
    Every scene with Wonder Woman or Lois on page was embarrassing. Miller is terrible at writing and understanding women. He hasn’t changed at all.

    DC should be embarrassed to have published this.

  10. #400
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    This was a bad issue.i liked parts of it like tieing up that wife beater and the first heroic stuff clark does. I loved the stuff with the baby. It really does remind you of morrison's guy. But then he starts following luthor and becomes government guy?yeahli expected that.But still, it was a huge turn off for me.

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    This was a bad issue.i liked parts of it like tieing up that wife beater and the first heroic stuff clark does. I loved the stuff with the baby. It really does remind you of morrison's guy. But then he starts following luthor and becomes government guy?yeahli expected that.But still, it was a huge turn off for me.
    The issue wasn’t released for any reviews and it was barely promoted. It’s fairly clear DC knew it was bad.

  12. #402
    Mighty Member Lokimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Every scene with Wonder Woman or Lois on page was embarrassing. Miller is terrible at writing and understanding women. He hasn’t changed at all.

    DC should be embarrassed to have published this.
    So? Some Women are terrible at writing or understanding men does that mean they should Stop? No. Miller Writes things at Face Value. What you see is what you get with him. This was Millers Superman from the start. Of course he wouldn't be the Socially Acceptable Non-Threatening version some of you seem to love so much. If I was writing Superman and had to justify him NOT killing people it'd be for the simple fact that it's too easy. Guy could kill you with the flick of his finger which shows the brass ones that Lex, Bruce and Lois have to be willing to interact or piss off THAT. I swear you guys look at this stuff in the wrong way.

  13. #403
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    Yeah that was a kind of weak ending. I thought the first two issues were actually pretty good but he didn't really bring it home kind of felt like he was rushing to segue into explaining how this guy became the guy from DKR. I thought the bit where he fought the soldiers, the crime fighting montage when he got to Metropolis, and the bit where he was flying off to fight Brainiac were good but everything else felt like it needed at least 4 more issues to actually make sense. Like when Superman and Batman fight, both seem to know ahead of time it's just a set up but both decide to fight anyway.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokimaru View Post
    So? Some Women are terrible at writing or understanding men does that mean they should Stop? No. Miller Writes things at Face Value. What you see is what you get with him. This was Millers Superman from the start. Of course he wouldn't be the Socially Acceptable Non-Threatening version some of you seem to love so much. If I was writing Superman and had to justify him NOT killing people it'd be for the simple fact that it's too easy. Guy could kill you with the flick of his finger which shows the brass ones that Lex, Bruce and Lois have to be willing to interact or piss off THAT. I swear you guys look at this stuff in the wrong way.
    The comparison to female writers is unfounded and inappropriate given there are so few female writers even employed by the big 2 to even make the comparison let alone any who are allowed to even write men. A female writer would never been given the power or position Miller receives and would be held to a much harder standard if the quality of her work had fallen off the way his has. Institutional discrimination of women is also a documented problem at DC both in their offices and in their works so, again, a false equivalence.

    The rest of your post is a straw man. The fact that you don’t have a problem with Miller or see the misogyny that others see in his writing doesn’t mean we are “looking at this the wrong way.” That’s very disingenuous again.

    Finally, it’s a straw man to equate all criticism of Miller with the critics wanting a “socially acceptable non-threatening Superman.” Misogyny shouldn’t be socially acceptable. As for “threatening?” Threatening to WHOM? I’ve actively defended Superman using lethal force against Zod to save innocents for years now. I’ve actively defended him from arguments that that makes him a “Murderer.” I’m also actively cheering on Superman Smashes the Klan on another post as I absolutely want to see Superman (and Lois btw) as a threat to those who would discriminate and engage in racism. By all means make him a threat to Nazis! Miller isn’t writing Superman here as some guy standing up for the weak. He’s writing him as an arrogant incel who views women as objects and who says stuff like “I’ll show them all” like a gamer gate dude bro who goes after women on twitter.

  15. #405
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokimaru View Post
    So? Some Women are terrible at writing or understanding men does that mean they should Stop?
    Maybe. It depends on how badly they mangle the character's personality. Look, I defended the first issue because, as a story, it reads like a pretty generic Superman origin. Miller's ass dialogue aside. But that second issue was just bad all around. Bad story. Bad dialogue. And, yes, it was misogynistic. Treating Lori, or any woman, as a "prize" in this day and age is misogynistic. I haven't picked this up yet but I'm leaning towards not now. If it's even worse than the second book, I don't see the point. There are other books I want to get today and I'll probably just get those. If I do decide to get this, it probably won't be this week. But the fact that this entire series has kind of fallen under the radar speaks for itself about how little DC cares about it. My LCS still has copies of issue #1 sitting on the shelves if that gives you any idea. I kind of wonder if DC is beginning to regret their "exclusive contract" with Miller at this point. Apparently they didn't learn anything from ASBAR.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

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