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  1. #166
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I never understood any football controversy because Superman's altruism to me was never about strictly denying himself joy, especially as a teen. Like Myskin said the story shows it as no one getting hurt and it's not like he made money. And he's definitely a guy who does make money from his powers later anyway (when not going around in a bright costume calling himself Superman). Don't usually get to relate to Superman directly but I used to like Gamesharking NFL Blitz.

    I did end up liking the last of the issue a lot more. Where the football gets rounded out by the studying and Lana relationship, and I like how they both work with the military thing in defining this young Clark.
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  2. #167
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I never understood any football controversy because Superman's altruism to me was never about strictly denying himself joy, especially as a teen
    Because he has an unfair advantage. That alone would be enough for me. And also because physical examinations, drug tests, etc. for football players increase the chance of him getting found out.

    I think him having friends and a social life is great. Competitive athletics is not.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-14-2019 at 05:25 PM.

  3. #168
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I played three sports in high school including football, and as of 2005 they didn't really do any tests. From unmasked steroids to heart defects, people just sort of acted surprised when something came to light.

    And for Clark, who has an unfair advantage in everything, the alternative to deliberately holding back and at least having some fun is not doing anything. I think Man of Steel might be my favorite superhero movie but I guess I don't like a miserable young Clark otherwise.
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  4. #169
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    And for Clark, who has an unfair advantage in everything, the alternative to deliberately holding back and at least having some fun is not doing anything. I think Man of Steel might be my favorite superhero movie but I guess I don't like a miserable young Clark otherwise.
    I don't like a miserable young Clark Kent, either (though it showed up a lot in Superboy comics). I think he can do lots of things. Social things, not competitive ones.

  5. #170
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Donner had Clark not participate in sports.

    Byrne had Clark as a football star.

    Waid, Johns and Snyder had Clark as an sideliner and outcast for their interpretations.

    Boy of steel, unfair advantage and chance of hurting someone is too great for Clark.


    I'd have Clark join the band or be in the photography club. Him, Lana and Pete.

  6. #171
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I would think having him join something that doesn't require his special skills would be more of a challenge for him. Like writing. He can work on the school paper. But sports just feels like cheating if nothing else. If someone who uses steroids has an unfair advantage, then what's the difference with super powers?
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  7. #172
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Again, I don't think Clark being in football is about cheating/unfair advantage/winning. Having him have something like that where he can practice physical contact in a rough environment where he's trying to tap down his strength and pass for "only human" strong is the interesting idea to me. Basically like he's making a game of "not bruising people" - he awards himself bonus points every time someone can stand up without groaning after he tackles them. But that's just me. Even if he isn't on the school's team (since unfair competition is a bigger concern for many than I'd thought) I still think showing him doing sports and rough housing in a more casual kids and teens just playing for fun thing would be a lot more interesting than a Clark who refuses to play for fear of hurting someone. I feel like he'd take it as a challenge that he can play and not let anyone get hurt. From an inspirational guy like Superman, the "I can't engage in certain activities because I'm too strong and might hurt someone" thing just doesn't sit right. He would work harder so that he and everyone else can have a good and safe time!

  8. #173
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    It's just sports. He's a young kid, he wanted to have some fun. That's not that bad.
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  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    It's just sports. He's a young kid, he wanted to have some fun. That's not that bad.
    It is when he is able to outrun bullets or shrug off beng hit by a train. Either Clark is undercutting the team by playing at a small fraction of his potential or he is Labron James going full out against grade schoolers.

    If the Smallville team loses a game by 2 points, is it because only using superpowers would have let them win or is it that another fully himan player giving it 100% (because he isn't hiding powers) might have given them enough of an edge to flip the score?

    Look at it this way, you can have fun racing a person as fit as yourself and knowing you are both giving it your all. How much fun can you really have if all the other runners are pre-schoolers? Is it really a win if the other guy never stood a sliver of a chance? Is it really a great time if you are constantly trying to decide if you are handicapping yourself to even the odds or just letting the other guy win?

  10. #175
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    Quite frankly, if I had a major football champion hidden inside me I would indulge myself in winning just one match no matter how unfair it is, just for the taste of doing it. I don't see any purpose in nitpickingly pinpointing the ethical implications of just one childish mischief.
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  11. #176
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    It is when he is able to outrun bullets or shrug off beng hit by a train. Either Clark is undercutting the team by playing at a small fraction of his potential or he is Labron James going full out against grade schoolers.

    If the Smallville team loses a game by 2 points, is it because only using superpowers would have let them win or is it that another fully himan player giving it 100% (because he isn't hiding powers) might have given them enough of an edge to flip the score?

    Look at it this way, you can have fun racing a person as fit as yourself and knowing you are both giving it your all. How much fun can you really have if all the other runners are pre-schoolers? Is it really a win if the other guy never stood a sliver of a chance? Is it really a great time if you are constantly trying to decide if you are handicapping yourself to even the odds or just letting the other guy win?
    I think you’re focusing too much on the ethics of it when Clark is just a kid.
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  12. #177
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    It is when he is able to outrun bullets or shrug off beng hit by a train. Either Clark is undercutting the team by playing at a small fraction of his potential or he is Labron James going full out against grade schoolers.

    If the Smallville team loses a game by 2 points, is it because only using superpowers would have let them win or is it that another fully himan player giving it 100% (because he isn't hiding powers) might have given them enough of an edge to flip the score?

    Look at it this way, you can have fun racing a person as fit as yourself and knowing you are both giving it your all. How much fun can you really have if all the other runners are pre-schoolers? Is it really a win if the other guy never stood a sliver of a chance? Is it really a great time if you are constantly trying to decide if you are handicapping yourself to even the odds or just letting the other guy win?
    It's not the NFL, Clark's not making money off of it, heck he isn't even taking his team to championship. You're way to focused on like professional level ethics and morals when it should be just Clark is a teen wanting to hang out and have some fun. Most kids who do sports like that are just trying to have some fun and make some friends. Clark probably isn't out to win a bunch of games or give his team an unfair advantage, he's just looking for that feeling of joy that teamwork and playing with other hotheaded kids your age gives you. There's nothing really that wrong with it. Trying to dissect everything young Clark does with black and white morality superhero lenses is no fun.

  13. #178
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Yeah I disagree with people arguing from the angle of “its unethical”. Well yeah of course it’s unethical, but so is writing articles about yourself, and Clark is doing that right throughout his Superman career. Insisting that Clark never commits unethical acts would make for a really boring character. My argument against the football career is I just don’t think it adds anything to the character and I don’t like when writers use that as an excuse to write Clark as a dumb jock.

  14. #179
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I don't come at it from any ethics point of view whatsoever. I mean, maybe that would be a low priority concern for Jonathan and Martha. But the main concerns are simple. He could be outed, and he could accidentally hurt someone. Those to me are the reasons why Jonathan and Martha would, in any continuity where Clark had enhanced strength and durability from a young age, not even considering other powers, be forced to simply forbid Clark to play competitive sports.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  15. #180
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah I disagree with people arguing from the angle of “its unethical”. Well yeah of course it’s unethical, but so is writing articles about yourself, and Clark is doing that right throughout his Superman career. Insisting that Clark never commits unethical acts would make for a really boring character. My argument against the football career is I just don’t think it adds anything to the character and I don’t like when writers use that as an excuse to write Clark as a dumb jock.
    Furthermore, the high school football career was written as Clark's not putting his powers to good use; it was a learning moment for him. The rules of ethics about aliens who otherwise fit the criteria of high school football eligibility are far murkier than about a guy writing "objective" news (if that still exists these days) about a person he's covering without declaring that he is indeed the subject person, and such few Superman writers have bothered to go into why this isn't good practice.

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