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  1. #46
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    The imperialism comments for those who seem confused is because America is one of the worlds foremost superpowers. If it invades any nation that isnt China/Russia or the Entire EU its an insta stomp and leads to imperialism via "Submit or die"

  2. #47
    DC Enthusiast Tony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    It was something...but I’m willing to see were this goes. Also those bullies are future trouble makers. Like seriously were they really going to rape Lana? And Clark being a soldier might actually be really interesting. Did Miller ever say if he was going to use any of Supes villains?
    When I first read it I thought the sort of goth looking kid with the pen was going to be Lex until Clark called him Jeremy. I'm not sure the series needs a supervillain, maybe for the last issue.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    So after having read it I can honestly say it was...halfway decent? Miller is either working with someone or has taken some of the criticism he's gotten over the last few years to heart and has actively worked to improve himself a bit. This was certainly a better origin than some of the mainstream ones we've gotten in the last few years. It wouldn't break my heart too much if this becomes canon like Batman's Year One did. The attempted rape scene is getting more attention than it deserves. Clark stopped it before it got anywhere near what was implied. And I liked how Clark stood up for the bullied kids. All that having been said, Miller still has a lot of work to do in the dialogue department. Like, A LOT! He has a lot of good ideas. And, for the most part, they were executed well. This really isn't that much a deviation from what we've seen in other takes on his origin. But the way his characters talk. He still needs a lot of work. The over dramatic narration is still a problem. Not as bad as with ASBAR but still pretty bad. This really was more of a classic take on his origin than you might think. The idea that even the teachers are too afraid of the bullies to do anything was a bit much though. He's still letting some of that old Batman mindset come through. And Martha was too much of a "soft woman" caricature. I think he's genuinely trying to do better this time around. Anyway, that's my two cents.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  4. #49
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    its better than bendis

  5. #50
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    Clark saving Lana from getting gang raped is staying true to the original Superman comics.

    He saved Lois from the same thing in Action Comics #1.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    This was... ok? Like way better than I expected from Miller.
    Pros
    1. I love Clark being the defender of the outcasts in Smallville, that is something I wouldnít mind being canon
    2. His Clark is seemingly a super genius which is an interesting bit of development.
    3. I thought Clark and Lanaís relationship was well-done

    Cons
    1. It feels very similar to Byrneís origin and hasnít really done enough to justify why we need another retelling of Clarkís origins, especially his time in Smallville
    2. Lara plays no meaningful role and Martha is shown as someone who just doesnít ďget itĒ with Pa Kent telling Clark about what it means to be a ďreal manĒ
    3. Romita Jr.ís art just doesnít do it for me at all

    Overall Iíd say it was a decent effort but felt rather repetitive. Iím fine with Clark saving Lana from the attempted rape since it never even got that far. They made their intentions clear and then Clark kicked their butts. I donít really like Millerís Kents, they feel too much like caricatures, even more so than Byrne. The next two books look to be more interesting since weíll get Clark meeting Lori and his time in the military before we get back to the usual status quo. What Iím worried about is how Miller portrays Clarkís time in the military and his reasons for leaving. That could go very badly if mishandled. I am curious how heís going to portray Clark becoming Superman, since Miller has traditionally held the Superman ďstatus quoĒ in contempt as being something Clark needs to overcome to reach his true potential.

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Never said it was beautiful genius or daring. Just that there was nothing wrong with it. I just don't get the argument that it doesn't belong. This is Superman. He fights crime and fights bad guys. Any crime and any bad guy. He can do that just as well in an origin tale before he actually becomes Superman just as much as he can when he's actually Superman in Metropolis. That it doesn't belong rings more as just taking a preference for not wanting to see a certain thing, and trying to make it more than that in that its actually unacceptable. And it wasn't used just to get Lana to like him. They was clearly a mutual interest before-hand if only from afar. If its anything its just the common boy saves girl trope. But that's the worst it is, common. Beyond that, someone wanting to sexually assault a woman isn't pretty. No more than murder is pretty. Superman stops attempted murders all the time. I don't see what's out of bounds of him stopping sexual assault. I just can't entertain the idea it has no place in a Superman story. Superman was beating up asshole men who treat women like dirt right out of the box. I don't care if its 1938 or 2019, that relevance is not gone. I wish it was, but its not.
    Itís not out of bounds generally, but the way it is used here by Miller as the motivating factor for Lana to fall for Clark is gross. Sexual assault that is all about how a man reacts to it isnít appropriate in 2019.

    Lana appears in like one scene prior to the attempted rape where she talks to Clark as a friend and thereís a throwaway line about Kent being her ďboyĒ or something. Thereís no build up at all and she expresses no real attraction to him until after he saves her. The attempted rape is clearly used as a motivator for their relationship. Itís tropey in like a horrendously bad bodice ripping romance paperback way. If Miller didnít intend it to read that way he I donít know what heís going for. And the problem isnít that itís not relevant, itís that itís handled in a completely irrelevant way and used grossly not to address sexual assault or anything actually relevant. But to make the hero of the book look bad ass in front of the girl and get her to fall in love with him. Itís typical Miller alpha male bs. Plenty of people are obviously ok with that, but really itís cheesy at best and gross here.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Itís not out of bounds generally, but the way it is used here by Miller as the motivating factor for Lana to fall for Clark is gross. Sexual assault that is all about how a man reacts to it isnít appropriate in 2019.

    Lana appears in like one scene prior to the attempted rape where she talks to Clark as a friend and thereís a throwaway line about Kent being her ďboyĒ or something. Thereís no build up at all and she expresses no real attraction to him until after he saves her. The attempted rape is clearly used as a motivator for their relationship. Itís tropey in like a horrendously bad bodice ripping romance paperback way. If Miller didnít intend it to read that way he I donít know what heís going for. And the problem isnít that itís not relevant, itís that itís handled in a completely irrelevant way and used grossly not to address sexual assault or anything actually relevant. But to make the hero of the book look bad ass in front of the girl and get her to fall in love with him. Itís typical Miller alpha male bs. Plenty of people are obviously ok with that, but really itís cheesy at best and gross here.
    Lana fell in love with the man who stood up for her when no one else did. She was the only one that stood up to the bullies before Clark did. They fell in love because only they had the courage to stand against injustice when they saw it. They were both brave and dedicated to doing the right thing.

    There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to be with a man who does the right thing and stands up to bullies.

  9. #54
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    As a Superman fan, this isn't a Clark Kent I'd want to see as the main version. But as a separate self-contained story it was at least middling.

    The infant Superman came off a bit Brightburn-ish and I'm half convinced that Jor-El used some tech that lobotomized the Kents to make them take Clark in. What Clark got from Jor-El might be meant as a take on Superman the Movie but I never cared for that Jor-El and this one seems a bit more unsympathetic. "They are a fragile people, my son, therefore I have sent you to them. Try not to hurt them much"

    And Smallville feels a bit like something from a bad 1970's movie where gangs of anti-social thugs terrorize the townfolk. I can sort of see the way this is meant to shape Clark's Superman by giving him early challenges that he can't just outmuscle, but it felt way too over-the-top. No parents except the Kents seemed to make any appearance despite the level of problems. A few black-eyes from a fight is one thing. Kids needing medical care is something else. I can't buy Lana's investigation being the first time the police would have been called about them.

    On the whole "Lana incident", it comes off a bit different than what some are seeing. To me it was a cross between the over-the-top 70's style I mention above and Clark seeing that even investigating these guys not being a real solution. Pounding these guys openly didn't work. And if Clark hadn't intervened neither would just gathering evidence. The level of threat to Lana just felt like someone trying to make the second point but with a mindset influenced by the first. IOW since we already had these guys pissing in thermoses and seriously injuring people, the scene with Lana implying rape only fits the pattern. It wasn't an anti-woman bit as much as a "high-school is a warzone" trope turned up to 11.

    And as for it's impact on the Clark/Lana relationship, it didn't feel to me that Clark saving her was what got her interested. It felt more like there was some attraction there previously- thus the "Kent guy of yours" line- but this just sort of gave them the push to pursue it. If this had been a longer view of Clark's youth there would have been more groundwork laid.

    This just felt like reading a likeable Superman pastiche, but not one as likable as the "real" deal,

  10. #55
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    And as for it's impact on the Clark/Lana relationship, it didn't feel to me that Clark saving her was what got her interested. It felt more like there was some attraction there previously- thus the "Kent guy of yours" line- but this just sort of gave them the push to pursue it. If this had been a longer view of Clark's youth there would have been more groundwork laid.
    Agree with this.There was definitely attraction there previously. Its only a three issue series. For the specifically crafted progression of the tale, there's only so much build-up you can dedicate, and in that context the story did enough to point out that they were interested in one another beforehand.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  11. #56
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    The story was marketed and Miller has explained it as an exploration of Superman through his relationships with Lana, Lori, and Lois. Maybe and spend more than a panel developing a relationship that’s supposed to be central to the book and make this implied two sided attraction between two characters that are supposed to have a deep friendship and young love something instead of using an attempted rape as the motivation?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    The story was marketed and Miller has explained it as an exploration of Superman through his relationships with Lana, Lori, and Lois. Maybe and spend more than a panel developing a relationship that’s supposed to be central to the book and make this implied two sided attraction between two characters that are supposed to have a deep friendship and young love something instead of using an attempted rape as the motivation?
    But it isn't the motivation. It is something that was coming anyway. The attempted assault was just something that impacted when it happened.

    I do agree this story isn't developing much of a relationship between the two, though. It is overambitious to put that type of development into a 3-issue mini though.

  13. #58
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    But it isn't the motivation. It is something that was coming anyway. The attempted assault was just something that impacted when it happened.

    I do agree this story isn't developing much of a relationship between the two, though. It is overambitious to put that type of development into a 3-issue mini though.
    There’s like one real page of Lana and a few panels before the three page attempted rape sequence. The attempt and rescue are the central scene starting their relationship and she’s presented as basically falling for him in the aftermath of that. Prior to that she approached him non-romantically. Its paper thin as a generous reading. It’s the defining scene of their relationship, to the extent there’s anything. This wasn’t Clark’s best friend growing up that they developed feelings for each other over time. It’s a 64 page book, there’s plenty of room to develop the relationship if that was what Miller was capable of writing it. He’s not though or has no interest in it.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    There’s like one real page of Lana and a few panels before the three page attempted rape sequence. The attempt and rescue are the central scene starting their relationship and she’s presented as basically falling for him in the aftermath of that. Prior to that she approached him non-romantically. Its paper thin as a generous reading. It’s the defining scene of their relationship, to the extent there’s anything. This wasn’t Clark’s best friend growing up that they developed feelings for each other over time. It’s a 64 page book, there’s plenty of room to develop the relationship if that was what Miller was capable of writing it. He’s not though or has no interest in it.
    It's the longest scene but I don't see the attempted rape as the defining part of that scene. It's a bad choice to include it but I don't think other than Miller having the idea that attempted rape is an automatic element in any male/female physical assault there is more to it. He didn't write in the attempted rape to move the romance, he wrote it because to him it was a given part of the thugs terrorizing Lana.

    And if there is no relationship prior to that why do the other students prior to then even tease about "that Kent guy of yours"? Doesn't fit unless there was some hint of a connection between them. Either her friends see hints of a crush or there is a history of Lang/Kent friendship.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Wow... gang rape ? we don't even see that in Batman... And Batman supposed to be the dark one. Miller gets away with everything with his big name. If some new comer wrote rape in Superman, fans would castrate him... lol Is the gang rape graphic ? or is it something like sue dibney rape ? you don't even understand it with panels till some says that was rape... ?
    No. It is just implied that they were going to rape Lana if Clark hadn't arrived when he did.

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