movie Captain America vs movie Green Goblin without the glider

[Wildling]

Well cap had problems with WS and corvus glaive but did pretty good against Ironman so I really don't know.

Assuming you mean movie Civil War that I haven't watched, and I also know different media incarnations aren't interchangeable, but well original CW (from the same writer that influenced the cinematic Avengers) is the story where he famously eats Iron Man's full punch to the face and a thruster powered body charge to his back and afterwards only needs to recover like Rock in a Fast and Furious movie skirmish. Just wondering here.

Thing with Goblin is, being conceptually tied with giving any kind of physical trouble/hell to Spider-Men has always also tied him to total superhuman status, similar to symbiote people. Even in Dark Reign comics that mostly avoided his Goblin persona, he impaled Swordman with his own weapon and threw him out the building just having a momentary psychotic break.

[moonknight11]

Thing about the Iron Man fight is that it was very favourable to Cap on every level. Iron Man is focused on taking out Bucky, and just eating shots from Cap without really answering. He gets hit by his own blast, deflected and later gets double teamed. That's without mentioning the SMvFL of Cap holding Tony's leg and keeping him from flying before disabling a booster. Cap can hold back a helicopter while juiced on adrenaline but he's not holding Iron Man suits that previously helped support a multi-ton SHIELD carrier full of people in AoU or can thrust enough to break the sound barrier.

He would have won in the end anyway with all that going against him, except for being startled at the end. Unlike Tony, Norman will not hold back against Cap and won't be distracted by his hateboner for Bucky. In fact put him at the end of civil war and I think he takes both Cap and Buck.

[Basara]

Well cap had problems with WS and corvus glaive but did pretty good against Ironman so I really don't know.

If by did pretty good against Iron Man, you mean he needed Tony to be completely distracted with attempting to kill Bucky that he ignored Cap most of the time giving Steve all sorts of opportunity to attack him, and even then still needed a assist from Bucky at the very end to eek out a win and limped away from the battle all battered and bruised, than yes, Cap "did pretty good against Iron Man."

Come on, no one is going to buy that Cap is anywhere close to Iron Man's level.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Also, Civil War Iron Man's armor had previously been unharmed from having multiple cars dropped on it, and War Machine basically ignored being caught in a fuel truck explosion. Yet somehow, Bucky (who was shown to be stronger in his mechanical arm than Cap was with both arms during his escape scene, and vastly weaker than Spider-Man with said arm) and Cap working together were somehow able to take that armor apart with brute Force, right up until Iron Man decided to take Cap seriously and beat him like a drum with AI enhanced fighting skills.

I mean, seriously, Bucky being able to throw the shield hard enough to embed it into an APC (I think; maybe it was a regular vehicle?) in The Winter Soldier was depicted as being something very impressive in The Winter Soldier, yet somehow a guy significantly weaker than Bucky's metal arm is able to use that same shield to tear off chunks of a decent Iron Man?

[choptop]

So that fight was SvF pretty much?

[Sub-Zero MKA]

So that fight was SvF pretty much?

Yeah. A serious, non-distracted Iron Man tears them both apart pretty easily.

[Jono]

I'm not denying that he isn't stronger than Cap or more durable but the dude is also a terrible fighter. Without the glider to compensate, he's really not that fast or agile. Plus if Thanos and Ultron can be hurt by being hit by Cap's shield, I feel fairly confidant that it'll hurt Gobby no problem.

and sure, Goblin pulled off a bunch of fancy stuff in the final fight but that's only when he fought a concussed Peter that could barely stand up. When faced against a perfectly healthy opponent (Peter in the burning building), he got picked apart by somebody who's a barely competent fighter.

In what universe is Raimiverse GG more durable than MCU Cap,who has survived several gsw to the abdomen, followed by having his brains bashed in by WS, endured a steel beam crashing onto him and knocking him hundreds of feet into a river where he was submerged for easily 1 minute, and walked of a Chitauri shot like it was nothing, he is more than capable of lifting several tons,was able to not only damage Iron Man's armour but also keep up with him in an all out altercation

[choptop]

In what universe is Raimiverse GG more durable than MCU Cap,who has survived several gsw to the abdomen, followed by having his brains bashed in by WS, endured a steel beam crashing onto him and knocking him hundreds of feet into a river where he was submerged for easily 1 minute, and walked of a Chitauri shot like it was nothing, he is more than capable of lifting several tons,was able to not only damage Iron Man's armour but also keep up with him in an all out altercation

He took hits from a guy who can stop a train.

[Powerboy]

So that fight was SvF pretty much?

Yeah. Spider-Man completely no-sold a punch from Bucky. Cap and Bucky put together beating IM was complete P.I.S.

[Basara]

was able to not only damage Iron Man's armour but also keep up with him in an all out altercation

Please read the whole thread, because it's already been explained in full detail that Steve cannot in fact beat Tony without massive amounts of PIS.

Meanwhile, he's up against an opponent who fought Raimi Spider-Man, whose feats include:

1) catching a tram full of innocents in freefall and managing to hold onto it while taking a punch from someone as strong as him.

2) takings hits from a guy whose tentacles were strong enough to effortlessly tear bank vault doors off and fling them like Cap throws his shield.

3) Stopping a runaway train.

4) Webbing grenades in mid air and swinging them back into the faces of the people who threw them.

5) Seeing the world move in freaking slow motion because he is soooo much faster.

Yeah, Raimi Spider-Man is magnitudes faster, far more durable, and much, much, much stronger than Cap, and it took everything Raimi Spider-Man had to beat Green Goblin. MCU Cap doesn't have a freaking chance without Mjolnir.

[Jono]

Maybe GG is somewhat more resistant to impact/blunt trauma but Cap deals with penetrating trauma better,also do not underestimate the strength and abilities of MCU Cap https://screenrant.com/captain-america-strength-mcu/ but I agree,overall brute strength and arsenal are two aspects in which GG beats CA. Also,it's kinda hard to gauge how durable Norman was as he was fortified by cybernetic armor for all battles with Spidey

[Sharpandpointies]

Why wouldn't he have the armor here, as well?

[big_adventure]

Maybe GG is somewhat more resistant to impact/blunt trauma but Cap deals with penetrating trauma better,also do not underestimate the strength and abilities of MCU Cap https://screenrant.com/captain-america-strength-mcu/ but I agree,overall brute strength and arsenal are two aspects in which GG beats CA. Also,it's kinda hard to gauge how durable Norman was as he was fortified by cybernetic armor for all battles with Spidey

Why is the armor "cybernetic"? It's never hinted that the strength comes from the armor, at least not that I recall. It probably aids his durability, but given that he no-sells multiple shots from Peter, and catches Pete's punch in his hand in their first dust-up, he's got a lot of that as well.

[Sharpandpointies]

Let's just say the armor IS cybernetic, or at least has some kind of significant effect on his durability.

He would have it here, anyway.

[Jono]

Why is the armor "cybernetic"? It's never hinted that the strength comes from the armor, at least not that I recall. It probably aids his durability, but given that he no-sells multiple shots from Peter, and catches Pete's punch in his hand in their first dust-up, he's got a lot of that as well.

True,according to Marvel Wiki it is and that he can remotely control his glider with it,I highly doubt that it is a source of strength but easily durability. However, even without the armour, i agree that he is considerably resistant to blunt trauma,as Harry's gear didn't really provide protection yet he survived multiple blow from a black suited Spiderman, which significantly enhanced Peter's extreme strengths and Norman and Harry were on par with stats