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  1. #1
    Mighty Member
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    Default "Dark Reign" coming to the MCU?

    It's going to be almost impossible to find a worthy villain to take over Thanos' role in the MCU as the "TOP BAD GUY". But in the meantime, we will also need a "secondary top villain" to take over the potential place of Loki; and that's where Norman Osborn could come into scene. There has been a lot of rumors about a potential Post-Credits' scene of "Spider-Man: Far from Home" that seems to indicate Norman Osborn is the one who bought the Avengers' Tower and he's gathering the Sinister Six. Of course, I deal this information with a grain of salt; but in case this would be true, this could lead us to the MCU's adaptation of one of the greatest and possibly more polemic arcs in the Marvel Universe: Dark Reign.

    Let's suppose for a minute that the rumored information is true. Well, based on that, Norman Osobrn could be aiming to usurp Stark's role in the world; both as a business man and as "hero". To do that, I guess he could start by forming HAMMER, as both SHIELD and Hydra were supposed to be destroyed in MCU, so Norman could pick up the pieces to form HAMMER, just like he did in the comics.

    1) Having buying the Avengers' Tower, Osborn would want to form his own "wannabe" Avengers to look like a good guy in public. This could actually be a combination of both, Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers and Baron Zemo's Thunderbolts. It's difficult for me thinking about enemies outside of Spider-Man's rogue gallery for this team, but I have some interesting candidates:
    - "Superior Iron Man": Just like he did in the comics, Norman Osborn would usurp Tony Stark's identity as Iron Man. However, considering the identity of Iron Patriot was already used, I believe there's another candidate to cover this place. And that is "Superior Iron Man". Since this suit was created as a "pseudo-symbiote", it suits perfectly for Spider-Man to fight; not to mention this could give us something similar to the Black Suit's arc while avoiding Venom's connection.
    - "U.S. Agent": A parody of Captain America would be needed, but I'm not sure who could be the guy to cover this place. On one hand, I believe Norman's variation of the Super-Soldier's serum could lead us to the creation of the Goblin Serum.
    - "Ragnarok": The artificial clone of Thor could be Norman's version of Thor, but I suspect this could lead us to a popular villain of Spider-Man. In case it doesn't appear on "Far from Home" with the other "Elementals", maybe this guy could became Electro.
    - "Grey Hulk": Which character could become Norman Osborn's version of Hulk? Well, if we follow the origin based on Gamma radiantion, there's one candidate, the Rhino.
    - "Trick Shot": A criminal archer could suit the role of Hawkeye, probably Buck Chisholm to avoid direct connection with Clint Barton's brother, Barney. However, there's another archer who could take this role in Spider-Man's gallery of foes, Kraven the Hunter.
    - "Black Cat": Sounds weird, but this character could work as Osborn's Black Widow. However, if they are loyal to the comics, Felicia could end up having a crush on Spidey and desert from Osborn's side.

    All these characters could end up becoming their alternative selves as an incarnation of the Sinister Six, once Spider-Man defeat and unmask them in public; but we all know how tricky Osborn can be, even if he's not crazy because of the Goblin's serum. So, to control both sides of the board and have a team to do the dirty work. That would be the first incarnation of the Sinister Six, before Norman and his Dark Avengers take their real roles. Let's see:
    - Vulture: He's a good candidate, but considering that he's like an honorable villain here, it's hard to believe he will follow Osborn without questioning. This could lead us to Blackie Drago, the second Vulture; who could be more willing to kill Spider-Man.
    - Scorpion: He's definitely a potential candidate.
    - Shocker: A more advance version of this bad guy, looking like the comics version, is possible.
    - Chameleon: If rumors of his debut are right, he's another candidate. However, considering his talents are not necesarrily fitten for combat, he could actually have a different role.
    - Mysterio: We don't know how this guy will end up in the movie, but if it turns out his classic self, then Spidey will have a real problem; especially since this guy knows his secret identity. (I mean, they are both unmasked in the trailers).
    - Hobgoblin: If Norman debuts, then the legacy of the Green Goblin can't be far away. However, I believe his role as the Green Goblin could be "postponed" to his final battle against Spider-Man; and in the meantiem, we could get another goblin.
    - Doc Ock: If the Sinister 6 debut, its original leader should appear sooner or later, although I don't know how he will do it.
    - The Prowler: Aaron Davis made his debut, so he could become the Prowler in the future. I just hope he will become an honorable villain like the Vulture.

    Well, what do you think of this theory?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    It's going to be almost impossible to find a worthy villain to take over Thanos' role in the MCU as the "TOP BAD GUY".
    The only reason they used Thanos was that they couldn't use Dr. Doom. That is no longer the case. Doom's gonna be the next 10 movie story-arc villain leading to Secret Wars where he becomes God-Emperor of the Multiverse, far more powerful than Thanos was. And an Earth-bad guy who becomes cosmic is a nice inversion to a cosmic guy coming to Earth's corner.

    But in the meantime, we will also need a "secondary top villain" to take over the potential place of Loki; and that's where Norman Osborn could come into scene.
    They could use Kang, they could use Molecule Man, they could use Gorr the God Butcher, they could use Zemo and the Masters of Evil, now rebranded Thunderbolts, Mr. Sinister, Annihilus. There are a lot of people who fit that more logically than Norman.

    Well, what do you think of this theory?
    Here's the thing. In most cases, MCU, and in the case of MCU Spidey especially so, have done villains not adapted before, not cast before and so on. So they aren't stepping into toes. In the case of Norman Osborn/Green Goblin, he's had an iconic defining performance in the form of Willem Dafoe. Short of getting Dafoe back as Norman, which I'm down for, MCU will have its work cut-out in introducing a new Norman Osborn, different from the one audiences remember/love. Not impossible, but not easy. There's also the general problem that Norman Osborn from the outset will be a little too similar to Obadiah Stane, Hammer and others. That HAMMER taking over SHIELD is a redo of Winter Soldier and shutting down SHIELD. The MCU shut down SHIELD specifically so that they could make their superhero stories more unpredictable without this all-powerful agency looking over and covering everything up, so that when the Avengers go and fight Thanos, it's their victory and their victory alone and not solely or mainly them being SHIELD assets.

    And ultimately as far as bad guy who crosses into every corner of the Marvelverse goes, Dr. Doom is more versatile. He has iconic defining stories and encounters with multiple Marvel heroes, multiple Marvel genres. Dr. Doom has great moments in Spider-Man, great moments with Luke Cage, great moments with T'Challa, great moments with Dr. Strange, and so on and so forth. Unlike Osborn, Doom has had forgettable and forgotten appearances before, so the stage is all set for Marvel to give us the Victor von Doom we've all been waiting for.

  3. #3
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    1) I don't discuss Dr Doom to become a really powerful villain in the MCU, but this villain can't enter in scene without his origin explained. Of course Doom has faced almost every single hero and villain in the Marvel Universe, but just like Loki didn't appear until Thor's first movie and Thanos didn't appear until the Avengers' first movie, Dr Doom can't appear in the MCU until the Fantastic Four are properly introduced.

    2) Villains from the Fantastic Four's gallery of foes can't be used until the very same heroes are introduced. That includes Kang, Annhilus, and Molecule Man. The same happen with enemies of the X-Men and mutants in general, like Mr Sinister. The Kree and the Skrulls were used in a very limited way for their "cosmic roles" fitting for the Guardians of the Galaxy; but there's no sign about the Super-Skrull. And Ego the Living Planet wasn't originally introduced as a villain for the Fantastic Four, but for Thor. Zemo and the Masters of Evil doesn't fit for this incarnation, as his origin is different from the one from the comics. And with Asgard destroyed and the remaining Asgardian living as regular mortals, it doesn't have much sense to introduce the God Butcher.

    3) It certainly fits what you said, Revolutionary_Jack. But with the possibility of another Thanos emerging in the future, Norman Osborn could find a perfect chance to ascend in power; just like the Civil War and the Secret Invasion allowed him to do it in comics.

    And finally, you are completely right about Doom. But like I said, as long as the Fantastic Four don't make an appearance, I wouldn't count on him to appear either.

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    It's seems likely that Norman will be the main big bad on Earth while the space heroes deal with some big space threat. Fantastic four I don't expect them until phase 5 or even 6 cause they just got them
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    You can totally introduce Doom before the rest of the Fantastic. Just put him in Dr. Strange 2 or 3 and adapt Triumph and Torment. That book already covers and introduces his origins, and makes only vague references to Richards (and not by name).

  6. #6
    Incredible Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Osborn fits, imo.
    The next Avengers film could possibly be Dark Avengers where Norman takes the fight to the Eternals.

  7. #7
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    You can totally introduce Doom before the rest of the Fantastic. Just put him in Dr. Strange 2 or 3 and adapt Triumph and Torment. That book already covers and introduces his origins, and makes only vague references to Richards (and not by name).
    Feige has stated multiple times not to expect the FF or X-Men anytime soon. We may have to wait until Phase 5
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  8. #8
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    introduce hydra cap NOW
    Dance games are my divine punishment from the Lord. May my furnace be forever fueled.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    introduce hydra cap NOW
    They made a spoof of him in Endgame, why would they do it straight now?/

    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Feige has stated multiple times not to expect the FF or X-Men anytime soon. We may have to wait until Phase 5
    You can introduce Doom before the FF. Thanos remember was introduced without Adam Warlock and also the original Captain Marvel who were his original enemies.

    And in any case, Thanos was teased at the end of Phase 1, and so on. Being that he's a villain of three phases. So by the time Phase 5 comes around, Dr. Doom is ready for his close-up.

  10. #10
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    introduce hydra cap NOW
    Knowing the MCU, it would probably just be Walker or one of the Fake Caps who devolves into basically HydraCap.

  11. #11
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    They could do both Dark Reign and Doom has the major threats of the next saga. Allow Osborn to take center stage while Doom builds himself up in the shadows until Secret Wars where Doom finally makes his move.

  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    If they go with Osborn/Dark Reign, my only caveat is I hope they don't lose sight of the Spider-Man connection/enmity by trying to make him an MCU Big Bad.

  13. #13
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If they go with Osborn/Dark Reign, my only caveat is I hope they don't lose sight of the Spider-Man connection/enmity by trying to make him an MCU Big Bad.
    I feel like they have to make Spiderman be the one to beat him or at the very least be the first one to suspect him or reveal him. But thats like another 10 years from now and if the deal still continues
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  14. #14
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    Norman Osborn as the Superior Iron Man would be an alternative to introduce something similar to the symbiotes, without using Venom. After all, Superior Iron Man's armor was designed on nano-tech based on symbiotes.

  15. #15
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Norman Osborn as the Superior Iron Man would be an alternative to introduce something similar to the symbiotes, without using Venom. After all, Superior Iron Man's armor was designed on nano-tech based on symbiotes.
    I don't think we need another Iron Man, but as long as we don't get Ultimate Goblin, I'm good .

    Although I wouldn't be surprised if MCU Osborn might use the Iron Man armor as a basis for the Green Goblin suit.

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