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  1. #91
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhienphan2808 View Post
    He has learned. Tim and Dick helped save him, and the family grew larger. Up to 2000 that is. Everything went ugly and ooc after that, no wonder Jason was angry.
    Well, even that's a bit of a retcon, isn't it? After a few issues, Bruce didn't really have the problem (except victim-blaming Jason, which I think began when we were still in Death in the Family or immediately thereafter) until they decided they needed a new Robin and then the super-violent was brought in just to give Tim a purpose to seek him out. Or so it sometimes seems. And with Tim "saving" him - Bruce didn't learn anything - the entire mantra was "it was all Jason's fault and you did nothing wrong." I guess that's what Bruce learned. So Tim, who's obviously superior to Jason, is fine to have as Robin, since he won't screw up and get himself killed.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Well, even that's a bit of a retcon, isn't it? After a few issues, Bruce didn't really have the problem (except victim-blaming Jason, which I think began when we were still in Death in the Family or immediately thereafter) until they decided they needed a new Robin and then the super-violent was brought in just to give Tim a purpose to seek him out. Or so it sometimes seems. And with Tim "saving" him - Bruce didn't learn anything - the entire mantra was "it was all Jason's fault and you did nothing wrong." I guess that's what Bruce learned. So Tim, who's obviously superior to Jason, is fine to have as Robin, since he won't screw up and get himself killed.
    That’s the thing about nerfing Dick I think. Before his history was written to the ground, I write every bad retcon as stupid and irrelevant and never happened, and others good retcons. But when you pretend the Dick who trained Tim never existed you enable these bullshit nArrative to be right. At least Wolfman knew that dick and Jason fell short because they had no other family, and he created Tim to be Emotionally unaware , to let Bruce and Dick withhold issues with Jason from him. Dixon just let Dick say because Jason was angry, and in the 2000s stripped Tim of someone with enough skills and experience to guide him.

  3. #93
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I don't quite get the "Dick fell short" bit - I'm not sure what you are referencing.

  4. #94
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    Well he said that Dick was boring as Robin not because of Dick himself but bc Batman is his only family which made him dependent and has tried to give him a love and home outside the bat to ground him since NTT. Post crisis Jason pretty much knew only Bruce. He created Tim to have Dick AND parents to set him apart.

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyer View Post
    I don't know what the heck they did with Superman's dog, but I hate it.
    Krypto's back to normal. At least, he was in the Rebirth/Supersons stuff. Bendis hasn't really used him yet so it's hard to say what version he will be once he does. But last he was shown he was just a normal dog with super powers again.
    Last Read: Berserk vol. 40
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  6. #96
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    I think Reverse-Flash killing Nora Allen would be okay if it happened in the Flash's original timeline. Maybe the first thing Flash-fan Eobard Thawne does is go back in time to meet his hero, Barry Allen, but he overshoots his mark and ends up at the Allen home when Barry is just ten years old and Thawne mistakenly kills Nora. This sets a number of dominoes falling which turns Eobard evil and puts Barry on a path to gaining his powers. Call this a reboot, but it wouldn't have any connection to the pre-Crisis or any other previous versions of Barry's history.

    But the reboot we got depends on some version of Barry who was the Flash and whose mom never died. We have Eobard, already with a history of fighting Barry Allen, going back in time to really screw Barry over by changing the timeline and killing his mom. We know that this isn't the original timeline and Barry was destined to be the Flash either way. So Thawne has transgressed the laws against interfering with history by changing his own timeline and that of Barry Allen. Yet when Barry tries to change it back to how it should be, he's the one who is scapegoated. This seems clearly unfair and like the writers have stacked the deck against Barry.

    Given he's a hero and a scientist and a student of the Speed Force--Barry would never give up trying to correct the wrong that Eobard committed. Even if the writers want to keep the timeline where Nora died, it should always be one of those projects that Barry keeps working on, to figure out how to correct the timeline. For him to accept a timeline that Thawne invented goes against the character of Barry Allen. He doesn't let the bad guys win.

  7. #97
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Retcons can be a necessary evil. But it always irks the hell out of me whenever a character I like gets erased from canon (ex: Ted Kord, Wally West, Conner Kent etc.)

  8. #98
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    Krypto's back to normal. At least, he was in the Rebirth/Supersons stuff. Bendis hasn't really used him yet so it's hard to say what version he will be once he does. But last he was shown he was just a normal dog with super powers again.
    Bendis just used him since Supergirl got into the mix in the latest Superman issue and Krypto's been with her. He's his classic self.

    That said I absolutely loved the huskey/direwolf take. And that one's origin absolutely destroyed any origin Krypto's ever had. Another Morrison gem down the drain.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    -Ice no longer a nordic God but just a regular metahuman. Way to make someone less interesting.
    Yeah, both Icemaiden (from a hidden land of ice-manipulating Scandinavian people) and Green Fury (with a mystical green flame that could allow her to fly, change her clothing, create illusions or burn hot or cold) were way more interesting than the kind of generic metahuman Human Torch and Iceman clones that they got turned into as 'Fire and Ice.'

    I agree with lots of the previously mentioned ones in this thread, like Diana being Zeus' daughter, or Kryptonians retroactively becoming a planet full of jerks, or pretty much what Crisis on Infinite Earths ended up doing to the Justice Society and Helena Wayne, Robin of Earth 2, etc.

    But for stuff I haven't seen mentioned,

    Laurel Kent (a 30th century descendant of Superman) being retconned into having always been a thousand year old Manhunter robot in disguise (right after a storyline in which someone attempting to murder the descendants of 20th century heroes shoots her with a kryptonite bullet and she spends time *having surgery in a hospital* despite somehow also being a bulletproof robot with no vulnerability to kryptonite and none of the 30th century doctors noticing her 20th century technological innards?). Just breathtakingly dumb.
    Last edited by Sutekh; 06-27-2019 at 10:16 AM.

  10. #100
    Incredible Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Barry returning.
    Everything they did to Tim in New 52
    Wallace West
    Jason Todd being at the circus when Dick's parents died
    Diana not being born of clay
    New 52 Wonder Girl
    New 52 Superboy
    New 52 Kid Flash
    Supermans parents being dead
    Alan Scott and Ray Terrell being gay
    Batman not knowing his parents killer
    Cyborg being a JL founder and not a Teen Titan
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, Flash Forward, and Young Justice.

  11. #101
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Given he's a hero and a scientist and a student of the Speed Force--Barry would never give up trying to correct the wrong that Eobard committed. Even if the writers want to keep the timeline where Nora died, it should always be one of those projects that Barry keeps working on, to figure out how to correct the timeline. For him to accept a timeline that Thawne invented goes against the character of Barry Allen. He doesn't let the bad guys win.
    Agree. It could have been a great story where Barry fought Thawne and won his rightful life back. It wasn't.

    Here's one I don't think was mentioned: Retconned so Ollie knew about Connor all along and simply chose not to be involved. Makes no sense with story originally told.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    Barry returning.
    Everything they did to Tim in New 52
    Wallace West
    Jason Todd being at the circus when Dick's parents died
    Diana not being born of clay
    New 52 Wonder Girl
    New 52 Superboy
    New 52 Kid Flash
    Supermans parents being dead
    Alan Scott and Ray Terrell being gay
    Batman not knowing his parents killer
    Cyborg being a JL founder and not a Teen Titan
    All of these

  13. #103
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    Barry returning
    Oh my, yes, yes indeed.

  14. #104
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    For me, 2000 was when they started changing things. Each change made the relatability get smaller. When Infinite Crisis was done, the changes made sense. After Infinite Crisis, nothing was put back and the changes kept coming. Today there is nothing that you can relate to.

  15. #105
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    Jason Todd being at the circus when Dick's parents died
    When did that happen? I know he went to the circus as a kid but I don't remember him being there the night Dick's parents died.

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