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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Default What retcons do you most like?

    So, what big changes, either from universe reboots or ordinary retcons, do you most like? I don't mind "fix-its" (Hal was possessed when evil, Steph's death was faked, etc.) being listed, I'm really more about things that were new when done.

    Jason is not a clone of Dick. While I hate the back-projection of Red Hood onto young Jason (acting the like the kid was a chain-smoking, cursing, vicious little psychopath), I do like him getting his own back-story that isn't just Dick all over again.

    Clark's the real guy. I think it makes much more sense for Clark to really be himself day-to-day in his ordinary life than to live a lie. Also, much more fun to read for me.

    Sorry. Didn't realize there was already a thread.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 06-20-2019 at 06:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    So, what big changes, either from universe reboots or ordinary retcons, do you most like? I don't mind "fix-its" (Hal was possessed when evil, Steph's death was faked, etc.) being listed, I'm really more about things that were new when done.

    Jason is not a clone of Dick. While I hate the back-projection of Red Hood onto young Jason (acting the like the kid was a chain-smoking, cursing, vicious little psychopath), I do like him getting his own back-story that isn't just Dick all over again.

    Clark's the real guy. I think it makes much more sense for Clark to really be himself day-to-day in his ordinary life than to live a lie. Also, much more fun to read for me.

    Sorry. Didn't realize there was already a thread.
    I don't remember that. You got a book/issue number?

  3. #3
    Fantastic Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    I don't remember that. You got a book/issue number?
    If you mean the clone bit - didn't mean literal clone (though with comics, it's a real possibility). I meant a carbon copy. Originally Jason was an orphaned circus acrobat, then after Crisis he got a new origin.

  4. #4
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    If you mean the clone bit - didn't mean literal clone (though with comics, it's a real possibility). I meant a carbon copy. Originally Jason was an orphaned circus acrobat, then after Crisis he got a new origin.
    I was referring to the chain smoking, cursing, vicious little psychopath. Because I’ve read second chances and I definitely don’t remember him being like that.

  5. #5
    Fantastic Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I was referring to the chain smoking, cursing, vicious little psychopath. Because I’ve read second chances and I definitely don’t remember him being like that.
    The back-projecting was more referring to fandom/fanfic than DC, sorry. I was saying I liked the background, despite that impact. Though there definitely is some backwards-looking tarnishing of Jason in the comic, too. So many conversations and references to how violent Jason was and how reckless. And he wasn't anymore reckless than Dick, and Batman has been just as violent sometimes. A lot of victim-blaming from Bruce. And sadly, some from Alfred, too. So I do think there may be some truth the statement that rather than young Jason being depicted that way because of Red Hood, Jason was brought back as Red Hood (a baddie) because he'd been so trashed by DC as a person who was always inadequate to the task and going to be a failure. It may have been, I think, an attempt to blame Jason so Bruce wouldn't be blamed.

  6. #6
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    The back-projecting was more referring to fandom/fanfic than DC, sorry. I was saying I liked the background, despite that impact. Though there definitely is some backwards-looking tarnishing of Jason in the comic, too. So many conversations and references to how violent Jason was and how reckless. And he wasn't anymore reckless than Dick, and Batman has been just as violent sometimes. A lot of victim-blaming from Bruce. And sadly, some from Alfred, too. So I do think there may be some truth the statement that rather than young Jason being depicted that way because of Red Hood, Jason was brought back as Red Hood (a baddie) because he'd been so trashed by DC as a person who was always inadequate to the task and going to be a failure. It may have been, I think, an attempt to blame Jason so Bruce wouldn't be blamed.
    Oh, that. I definitely agree with that.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Dick being incorruptible pure pureness. Well, not exactly. To be specific, I despise the portrayal of Dick in NTT/Titans that whenever he's emotional he harm others emotionally.

    He's been more idealized now including in his flashback, and I understand when older fans say that he's been too idealized he almost has no flaw anymore, but if I have to choose between idealized Dick Grayson than that mess of the NTT/Titans era, I'll take the idealized version, because past him is as bad as Bruce is now.

    Bruce lashes out with fists, Dick with words. Both hurts and I hate both.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Jason is not a clone of Dick. While I hate the back-projection of Red Hood onto young Jason (acting the like the kid was a chain-smoking, cursing, vicious little psychopath), I do like him getting his own back-story that isn't just Dick all over again.
    That also one like, even if i also like pre crisis Jason.

    The new-52 Shazam family. The new members are a pretty good addition.

  9. #9
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    Some of these may not technically be retcons, as they may not actually contradict anything previously established...

    - Swamp Thing is a plant that THINKS he's Alec Holland
    - The post-Crisis Kents were alive
    - Booster Gold is Rip Hunter's dad
    - Duela Dent was from Earth-3 all along (maybe not a retcon)
    - Lightning Lad never came back to life, and was replaced by Proty (that's gotta contradict SOME Legion story, right?)

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Booster Gold is Rip Hunter's dad
    I've previously tried to figure out how popular that is. I kinda of like the idea, but kind of hate Rip Hunter sometimes (and his cruel way of teaching lessons - reminds of the worst of Batman). I kind of like the writing of the series, but hated the events. Depressing isn't my style. And while I like BG doing incredible things, I don't like him "stealing" them from the characters I saw do them.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    This is going to get me bounced but I liked the New 52 Superman. His history and origin(s) was a mess by that point and he needed a clean slate. I can't speak for what it did to the rest of the DCU but I think Superman needed it.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    This is going to get me bounced but I liked the New 52 Superman. His history and origin(s) was a mess by that point and he needed a clean slate. I can't speak for what it did to the rest of the DCU but I think Superman needed it.
    I’m with you on THAT one.
    Pull List:
    Marvel: Spider-Man:Renew Your Vows, Champions, Marvel Two-in-One, Fantastic Four (2018), Avengers (2018), Mr and Mrs X, Ironheart
    DC: Not much these days, but being cautiously optimistic for Shazam! (2018-2019) and Young Justice

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    That also one like, even if i also like pre crisis Jason.

    The new-52 Shazam family. The new members are a pretty good addition.

    Nice one. Agreed.
    Pull List:
    Marvel: Spider-Man:Renew Your Vows, Champions, Marvel Two-in-One, Fantastic Four (2018), Avengers (2018), Mr and Mrs X, Ironheart
    DC: Not much these days, but being cautiously optimistic for Shazam! (2018-2019) and Young Justice

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member astro@work's Avatar
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    Diana is Zeus's daughter
    I know I'm in the minority here, but I like it.
    The clay origin (to me) always felt like a contrived 1950's sensibility for explaining Diana by avoiding the topic of sex. (Sssh! It's the 50's! We can't say sex!)
    The Zeus origin ties her more intricately with the Gods, which has allowed for some great stories.

    The Kents are Alive
    Having the Kents around allows for Clark to keep one toe in his Midwest roots, which I really like for him.

    5 year Gap Legion
    Again, may not be everybody's fave, but this run allowed the Legion to move forward in ways they never have since. And it wasn't mired in their famously detailed Adventure comics issue about the Adult Legion (one of my favorite stories) so felt fresh!

    Bette Kane's Flamebird Origin post COIE
    The TT Annual story that reinvented many dated members stories gave new life to Bette she never would have had otherwise as the "old Batgirl".
    Now if people would stop forgetting her and include her in Batwoman and TT stories...

  15. #15
    Amazing Member Fromper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    This is going to get me bounced but I liked the New 52 Superman. His history and origin(s) was a mess by that point and he needed a clean slate. I can't speak for what it did to the rest of the DCU but I think Superman needed it.
    That's how I feel about the post-Zero Hour reboot of the Legion. I really liked that version, at least for the first few years.

    Of course, I may be biased, since I never read the earlier versions. I started reading comics in the early 90s, when they were already a mess. But from what I heard, the 5 year gap had ruined the Legion for most fans (other than astr@work, apparently), so the fresh start was a good thing.

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