Wheel of Time

[Jackalope89]

Several differences from the books, and only a couple were not great. The main one being that I would have liked Thom Merrilin to be with the boys a little longer.

spoilers:

Just to build up the relationship between him, Rand, and Mat a bit more. So that when we see him again, its that much more impactful.

end of spoilers

Overall though, I liked it. And finally got to see Nynaeve not only channel, but heal. The Tinker sub plot here, just doesn't quite feel as impactful as the book version. Its not bad, just missing a certain air to it that the book had.

[Hiromi]

Honestly I don't remember finding the book Tinker sub plot all that compelling either, pacifist philosophy just doesn't have much impact when it comes to fighting supernatural monsters employed by the literal embodiment of evil that want nothing else than to just eat people(and it just gets worse with Faceless). Basically it just felt like filler back then too. And if there's ONE thing this show can improve on the book its in cutting down on the filler, which Jordan did tend to get bogged down with.

Honestly I've found everything pretty enjoyable after the changes outlined early that still don't sit well with me, certainly don't mind an expansion of Loghain and Thom this early and feel they've both been done a good service. Glad they're not shying away from how dark the story can get. I get what they're trying to do with Perrin because he's universally considered the weakest of the three(three, as it should be) Ta'veran for pretty much the whole story(it does pick up eventually but he never really gets to the levels Rand and Mat do), but honestly the added bits really don't seem to be doing much to change or improve his overall story.

[Ascended]

Episode 4 was pretty strong. Much better than the previous ones.

They've really gotten away from the novels but I feel like, for the most part, the major chords are being hit and the character development and world building in this episode were excellent. It's starting to feel like the Wheel of Time now, and not just a poor man's Tolkien. It's still a rushed, cliff notes version of the WoT, but for all that it's becoming recognizable.

Their attempts to obscure the Dragon's identity still amuses me though. Nothing like watching showrunners try hard to hide a thirty year old secret.

[Johnathan]

Episode 4 was pretty strong. Much better than the previous ones.

They've really gotten away from the novels but I feel like, for the most part, the major chords are being hit and the character development and world building in this episode were excellent. It's starting to feel like the Wheel of Time now, and not just a poor man's Tolkien. It's still a rushed, cliff notes version of the WoT, but for all that it's becoming recognizable.

Their attempts to obscure the Dragon's identity still amuses me though. Nothing like watching showrunners try hard to hide a thirty year old secret.

True - the first few episodes felt a little like a particularly complicated D&D session. I don't really understand why they want to give the audience necessary background information so meagerly when it just ends up making everything seem more generic as a result.

[Gray Lensman]

Episode 4 was pretty strong. Much better than the previous ones.

They've really gotten away from the novels but I feel like, for the most part, the major chords are being hit and the character development and world building in this episode were excellent. It's starting to feel like the Wheel of Time now, and not just a poor man's Tolkien. It's still a rushed, cliff notes version of the WoT, but for all that it's becoming recognizable.

Their attempts to obscure the Dragon's identity still amuses me though. Nothing like watching showrunners try hard to hide a thirty year old secret.

What's funny is that Ep 4 is the furthest from the books, on a scene by scene basis. Nothing from this last episode is directly from the books, the closest being the Tinker plot. However, Ep 4 is also the closest to feeling like The Wheel of Time.

[Jackalope89]

What's funny is that Ep 4 is the furthest from the books, on a scene by scene basis. Nothing from this last episode is directly from the books, the closest being the Tinker plot. However, Ep 4 is also the closest to feeling like The Wheel of Time.

Funny, but true.

[Ascended]

I was thinking that too, the irony of this episode being the most true to the spirit of the series but being the first episode that completely went off script.

Life is funny sometimes. If you had told me that my favorite episode yet is the one that completely goes against the actual novels I'd have been insulted. The last thing I want is deviations from the source material, but here we are!

[CSTowle]

If they get the spirit and tone right the little details (while I feel they add, rather than distract) aren't as important.

[CSTowle]

So finally got around to watching episode 5, Loial was a bit goofy looking and felt the impact of his presence/introduction was muted compared to the books (hard to compete with a much taller/inhuman creature vs just a big dude with funky hair and nose). Liked the way they're keeping up the mystery on the identity of the Dragon, think it's a good call on the TV show side vs the book. Also really liked the White Cloaks/Perrin & Egwene scenes and hope they go deeper into what happened there. Tinkers were pretty cool, locking arms/peacefully protesting and turning the other cheek. Not seeing a lot of interest in the show overall, even among friends, so a bit worried we might not see seasons beyond 3 unless it catches on. Will say while I think Rosamund Pike/Moiraine was the weakest character I think she stepped it up this episode. In fairness, the character is supposed to be slightly mysterious and playing close to the vest. Not great for emoting or chewing scenery.

[Gray Lensman]

So finally got around to watching episode 5, Loial was a bit goofy looking and felt the impact of his presence/introduction was muted compared to the books (hard to compete with a much taller/inhuman creature vs just a big dude with funky hair and nose). Liked the way they're keeping up the mystery on the identity of the Dragon, think it's a good call on the TV show side vs the book. Also really liked the White Cloaks/Perrin & Egwene scenes and hope they go deeper into what happened there. Tinkers were pretty cool, locking arms/peacefully protesting and turning the other cheek. Not seeing a lot of interest in the show overall, even among friends, so a bit worried we might not see seasons beyond 3 unless it catches on. Will say while I think Rosamund Pike/Moiraine was the weakest character I think she stepped it up this episode. In fairness, the character is supposed to be slightly mysterious and playing close to the vest. Not great for emoting or chewing scenery.

In the books we know who the main character is, but not that he is supposed to be the reincarnation of the Dragon - that's saved for the end. But since we are starting with Morraine and Lan as PoV characters we also begin with knowing why they are involved. But we, like the two of them, aren't aware of exactly who it is. They aren't present for the right clues due to the party split, and the audience is given false clues ( stuff true to the characters but without needed context to dismiss them) to make up for it.

It isn't really as big a deviation from the books as it first appears, it's mostly a change in the PoV the audience views it from.

Other changes seem to be to up the stakes for later plotlines (or start them sooner), or to remove chances of casting a main character too early and then loosing them. This has apparently already happened with Ingtar - the actor was cast for the end of season one, with the understanding that he would be a major supporting character for season two. Except that during hiatus he was offered a bigger part with multiyear potential elsewhere. Another reason why we didn't see Caemlyn during season 1 - not just the expense of the set, but the possibility of loosing another main character actor, or several chances at loosing supporting character actors. Eleida, Morgase, Gawyn, Galad, Gareth Bryne, Tallanvor, Lamgwin, the Gills, that's a lot of chances for an unnecessary recast that can be avoided by not having that sequence just yet. Authors never have to contend with actors getting other jobs while you aren't using them.

Side note: the frustration typing those names past my autowronger makes we want to tug a nonexistent braid.....

[Ascended]

So finally got around to watching episode 5, Loial was a bit goofy looking and felt the impact of his presence/introduction was muted compared to the books (hard to compete with a much taller/inhuman creature vs just a big dude with funky hair and nose). Liked the way they're keeping up the mystery on the identity of the Dragon, think it's a good call on the TV show side vs the book. Also really liked the White Cloaks/Perrin & Egwene scenes and hope they go deeper into what happened there. Tinkers were pretty cool, locking arms/peacefully protesting and turning the other cheek. Not seeing a lot of interest in the show overall, even among friends, so a bit worried we might not see seasons beyond 3 unless it catches on. Will say while I think Rosamund Pike/Moiraine was the weakest character I think she stepped it up this episode. In fairness, the character is supposed to be slightly mysterious and playing close to the vest. Not great for emoting or chewing scenery.

I was a bit disappointed in Loial as well. I don't think he looks "bad" per se, but he is very underwhelming compared to the giant ogier of the novels. I get it; how many seven foot tall actors are out there for you to cast (and even they would be too short)? But I feel like they could have used some clever camera tricks/angles to make up the difference so Loial looks at least close to the size he should. Still, I like the guy playing him, the makeup and hair weren't *that* awful....it's good enough, I suppose.

The moment this show was announced, "good enough" wasn't nearly good enough for me, but I've really had to adjust my expectations since the thing came out.....

Didn't find episode 5 to be as good as 4, and I was a little annoyed that so much screen time was burned on Stepin (a minor character from the prequel novel, not even part of the regular series!). It was all well done, don't get me wrong, and the nature of the Warder bond becomes important later on so showing that off with side characters helps set the stage for that. But I was annoyed that this subplot got so much attention while so many characters and events from the novels were missing completely. Rand and Mat arriving in Caemlyn (Tar Valon here) is a huge moment; a lot of stuff snaps together and a lot of important people show up. Hard to roll with that being ignored so some rando Warder can feel bad about his Aes Sedai dying.

I feel like we're getting an idea of how the show will combine/fuse characters, what plotlines they'll twist or ignore, and the general shape of the adaptation. And in more cases than I would've thought, it's acceptable. Seems like Liandrin might take over Elida's role in the story, Valda seems to be taking over for both Byar and Bornhald, etc. Surprisingly I feel like we're not truly losing out on *too* much in such cases, though it'll mean we lose a mountain's worth of depth and nuance down the road. Right now the show is okay, but it's really going to have to find its groove; the glory of the Wheel of Time is in the details and the breadth of its scope and cast; lose those and this show is going to end up looking like a generic LotR rip off, and that benefits no one.

But I too fear the lack of buzz. From what little I've seen the show is doing quite well outside of the States (at least in New Zealand and Australia) but I feel like it needs to pick up some noteworthy hype if it's going to be even semi-successful and reach the Last Battle. The novels took their time finding their groove too, but they could get away with that, this show won't be given the same leeway.

[Gray Lensman]

I was a bit disappointed in Loial as well. I don't think he looks "bad" per se, but he is very underwhelming compared to the giant ogier of the novels. I get it; how many seven foot tall actors are out there for you to cast (and even they would be too short)? But I feel like they could have used some clever camera tricks/angles to make up the difference so Loial looks at least close to the size he should. Still, I like the guy playing him, the makeup and hair weren't *that* awful....it's good enough, I suppose.

The moment this show was announced, "good enough" wasn't nearly good enough for me, but I've really had to adjust my expectations since the thing came out.....

Didn't find episode 5 to be as good as 4, and I was a little annoyed that so much screen time was burned on Stepin (a minor character from the prequel novel, not even part of the regular series!). It was all well done, don't get me wrong, and the nature of the Warder bond becomes important later on so showing that off with side characters helps set the stage for that. But I was annoyed that this subplot got so much attention while so many characters and events from the novels were missing completely. Rand and Mat arriving in Caemlyn (Tar Valon here) is a huge moment; a lot of stuff snaps together and a lot of important people show up. Hard to roll with that being ignored so some rando Warder can feel bad about his Aes Sedai dying.

I feel like we're getting an idea of how the show will combine/fuse characters, what plotlines they'll twist or ignore, and the general shape of the adaptation. And in more cases than I would've thought, it's acceptable. Seems like Liandrin might take over Elida's role in the story, Valda seems to be taking over for both Byar and Bornhald, etc. Surprisingly I feel like we're not truly losing out on *too* much in such cases, though it'll mean we lose a mountain's worth of depth and nuance down the road. Right now the show is okay, but it's really going to have to find its groove; the glory of the Wheel of Time is in the details and the breadth of its scope and cast; lose those and this show is going to end up looking like a generic LotR rip off, and that benefits no one.

But I too fear the lack of buzz. From what little I've seen the show is doing quite well outside of the States (at least in New Zealand and Australia) but I feel like it needs to pick up some noteworthy hype if it's going to be even semi-successful and reach the Last Battle. The novels took their time finding their groove too, but they could get away with that, this show won't be given the same leeway.

I got the feeling that the stuff with Stepin was done to both humanize the warders by giving us a view into their culture (the novels never gave more than glimpses as the only warder we really see is Lan) and to up the stakes for a little event from The Fires of Heaven.

I was really disappointed with the grainy still for Loial but seeing him in motion was much better, and the actor killed it.

I missed Caemlyn as well, but understand that they need to hold a line on the budget, and won't want to cast 10 characters that all have parts to play later, creating 10 opportunities for those actors to take other jobs. It's already happened with Ingtar - the guy we see doing his part at the end of season one has been renamed and mentions of his name fixed in post. The actor was offered a starring role in a potential multiseason project (as opposed to 1 season max) and took the offer that was better for him.

[Ascended]

And I don't blame him, or anyone else who does the same. Artistic integrity and loyalty to a (minor) role don't pay the bills. This is one of the reasons I say the WoT is unfilmable. With a cast that big and spread out, it's damn near impossible to pull off in live action. Maybe animation, easier to switch voice actors and get away with it.

I agree on why Stepin was used like this and I can't argue with the logic. Hell, the Warder scenes in episode 4 were my favorites of the series so far. But I'm still a little annoyed that we got this mini plot instead of Min or Elaine, or fleshing out one of the smaller group's journey to Tar Valon. Screen time is at a huge premium here, and some real important steps are taken, yknow?

You know those idiot WoT fans who demand an adaptation be a 100% loyal, direct translation? The ones who refuse to admit that changes are necessary for the shift in medium? I'm one of those guys. And I know that's impossible and dumb but it's a struggle to accept anything less. So most of my complaining and whining should be taken with a grain of salt, if not straight ignored.

[Gray Lensman]

Speaking of losing actors, I was initially unhappy with the end of ep 6 until I realized this is where they lost the actor. That forces the director to make due whether they are prepared or not.

[Hiromi]

okay I THINK there was some subtext of Moraine and Siuane being pillow friends in the prequel book so I guess spoilers:

them being full blown lovers

end of spoilers isn't too much of a stretch. If you squint hard enough at it. Or at the least I know where it's coming from.

In any case the Par Vollen stuff was starting to drag so glad they're past it