Wheel of Time

[Gray Lensman]

Well, season's in the bag. I liked it much more than season one, and enjoyed the finale MUCH more than the last one (although that was admittedly a low bar). Everything is set up for a much closer adaptation of The Shadow Rising (and maybe parts of The Fires of Heaven) for season 3 - I bet the season will end up with some form of substitution of a certain fight near a certain twisted doorframe, leaving season 4 to finish book 5 and book 6 - ending the season on the one of the biggest WHAM! moments of the series. spoilers:

Kneel. Or be knelt.

end of spoilers

The fight in Falme felt suitably BIG, and seeing both Mat and Perrin make the big steps needed to becoming who they have to be for the later narrative was both a relief and a joy to see. While the road to this point wasn't what I would have done, everything is more or less in place to start the journey into the meat of Book 4 for next season, without having to take more than a single episode to start the journey.

[J. D. Guy]

Well, season's in the bag. I liked it much more than season one, and enjoyed the finale MUCH more than the last one (although that was admittedly a low bar). Everything is set up for a much closer adaptation of The Shadow Rising (and maybe parts of The Fires of Heaven) for season 3 - I bet the season will end up with some form of substitution of a certain fight near a certain twisted doorframe, leaving season 4 to finish book 5 and book 6 - ending the season on the one of the biggest WHAM! moments of the series. spoilers:

Kneel. Or be knelt.

end of spoilers

The fight in Falme felt suitably BIG, and seeing both Mat and Perrin make the big steps needed to becoming who they have to be for the later narrative was both a relief and a joy to see. While the road to this point wasn't what I would have done, everything is more or less in place to start the journey into the meat of Book 4 for next season, without having to take more than a single episode to start the journey.

It's good to hear something favorable for this adaptation for a change.

I still hold the Wheel of Time as my fave sword/sorcery fantasy book series (including all the books folks be hatin'), so it made me sad and trepidations to learn of all the disdain Season 1 had. So knowing Season 2 has been turning things around thusly is certainly sight for sore eyes.

[Conn Seanery]

I gave season 1 another go before starting season 2. I wasn't wowed the first time around, but I enjoyed it a lot more during the rewatch. I don't remember enough about the books (I never finished the series) to be bothered by any changes.

I liked Season 2, I think they did a good job bringing it all together for the finale. I've even started to like Nynaeve a bit (hated her in the books, and S1).

[BeastieRunner]

I gave season 1 another go before starting season 2. I wasn't wowed the first time around, but I enjoyed it a lot more during the rewatch. I don't remember enough about the books (I never finished the series) to be bothered by any changes.

I liked Season 2, I think they did a good job bringing it all together for the finale. I've even started to like Nynaeve a bit (hated her in the books, and S1).

It helps if you're a WoT fan to take this an another turn on the wheel ...

Then it's less RETCON and more ADAPTATION.

I think the producers said as much at one point.

And you should finish it sometime; it has a great ending.

[Gray Lensman]

It's good to hear something favorable for this adaptation for a change.

I still hold the Wheel of Time as my fave sword/sorcery fantasy book series (including all the books folks be hatin'), so it made me sad and trepidations to learn of all the disdain Season 1 had. So knowing Season 2 has been turning things around thusly is certainly sight for sore eyes.

Season one has some major out real life issues interfering with stuff towards the end, forcing major rewrites not only for the last two episodes, but for all of season two as well (initially it was planned as a closer adaptation of The Great Hunt). I can say I was disappointed with how season one ended, while at the same time being amazed it wasn't awful instead. Season two has massive changes to the books (more than season one) but leaves everything in place for a more closely adapted season three. All while being much better - I'd say that season two's lowest points were at or just below season one's average, with the best parts being either better, or at least much more common, than the highest points of season one.

I really only disliked the forced drama between Lan and Morraine, and was meh on Morraine's sister even though the acting was good.

You know, I wonder if the missing Forsaken might end up being the ones we saw being balefired on page in the novels. If Semirhage is missing then it really does lead to the "another turning of the wheel" version of events.

[J. D. Guy]

Season one has some major out real life issues interfering with stuff towards the end, forcing major rewrites not only for the last two episodes, but for all of season two as well (initially it was planned as a closer adaptation of The Great Hunt). I can say I was disappointed with how season one ended, while at the same time being amazed it wasn't awful instead. Season two has massive changes to the books (more than season one) but leaves everything in place for a more closely adapted season three. All while being much better - I'd say that season two's lowest points were at or just below season one's average, with the best parts being either better, or at least much more common, than the highest points of season one.

I really only disliked the forced drama between Lan and Morraine, and was meh on Morraine's sister even though the acting was good.

You know, I wonder if the missing Forsaken might end up being the ones we saw being balefired on page in the novels. If Semirhage is missing then it really does lead to the "another turning of the wheel" version of events.

Ah. So there was a lot of "real life having to write the plot" going on in Season 1, particularly late-Season 1?

I am glad to see you were overall fine with/overall enjoyed Season 1.

[Gray Lensman]

Ah. So there was a lot of "real life having to write the plot" going on in Season 1, particularly late-Season 1?

I am glad to see you were overall fine with/overall enjoyed Season 1.

I've mentioned the real life issues affecting the end of season one before, but I'll give a quick recap. Due to Covid restrictions, they lost the shooting location for the Blight, they had to rewrite the battle of Tarwins Gap due to the loss of extras and that close in combat choreography had been forbidden. Close contact was so restricted that they were forced to rewrite the "Egwene heals Nyneave" scene from the original use of herbs to use of the power instead. Plus the last two non-Covid issues, Barney Harris abruptly left the show after filming the first 6 episodes, forcing MORE rewrites, and lastly Amazon being unwilling to grant them any additional time to deal with all of this, making the effects rushed (and in the Battle of Tarwin's Gap especially you can see how rough the CGI is, or in how the Blight is the same patch repeated via CGI). However, I think the contest at the Eye of the World works better for the themes of the series as a whole than the book did. I'm not sure I that was a planned change or another forced rewrite.

[J. D. Guy]

I've mentioned the real life issues affecting the end of season one before, but I'll give a quick recap. Due to Covid restrictions, they lost the shooting location for the Blight, they had to rewrite the battle of Tarwins Gap due to the loss of extras and that close in combat choreography had been forbidden. Close contact was so restricted that they were forced to rewrite the "Egwene heals Nyneave" scene from the original use of herbs to use of the power instead. Plus the last two non-Covid issues, Barney Harris abruptly left the show after filming the first 6 episodes, forcing MORE rewrites, and lastly Amazon being unwilling to grant them any additional time to deal with all of this, making the effects rushed (and in the Battle of Tarwin's Gap especially you can see how rough the CGI is, or in how the Blight is the same patch repeated via CGI). However, I think the contest at the Eye of the World works better for the themes of the series as a whole than the book did. I'm not sure I that was a planned change or another forced rewrite.

Thanks for explaining/re-explaining.

After this thread turned too sour for what I was in a position to deal with, I kinda stopped coming to look at the new posts, even though I was, and still am, subscribed. That means I missed your initial explanation.

So it seems they were impacted a lot harder in production due to the things they needed to work around and the restrictions they needed to follow. But what was up with the actor who quit? Keep in mind, I'm unfamiliar with which actor portrays which character. (And I've oft never been good at following actors, in general, in the way other people enjoy doing.)

All in all, I still want to watch this show. Just need to sit down and figure out somethings. And thanks to your posts, I'm back to looking forward to doing so.

[Gray Lensman]

Thanks for explaining/re-explaining.

After this thread turned too sour for what I was in a position to deal with, I kinda stopped coming to look at the new posts, even though I was, and still am, subscribed. That means I missed your initial explanation.

So it seems they were impacted a lot harder in production due to the things they needed to work around and the restrictions they needed to follow. But what was up with the actor who quit? Keep in mind, I'm unfamiliar with which actor portrays which character. (And I've oft never been good at following actors, in general, in the way other people enjoy doing.)

All in all, I still want to watch this show. Just need to sit down and figure out somethings. And thanks to your posts, I'm back to looking forward to doing so.

It was the guy who played Mat in season one, and his absence is why Mat didn't go through the way gate at the end of episode six. Nothing has been said as to why he left, but no one on the show has said anything but good things about him. There was a rumor that he wouldn't take the Covid vaccine, but he is sueing sites that openly said that for defamation - and since records of that are kept, it's either a false rumor or the dumbest lawsuit he could have filed. Since nobody who has worked with him has said even the smallest bad thing about him, I'm gonna say it was something personal, but not something stupid like refusing a shot required to travel to the job.

I think the way to look at adaptation changes is to take Brandon Sanderson's words to heart. This is another turning of the Wheel. Informed by, but not shackled by, what happened in the earlier turning we know from the novels. And if my personal fan theory thinks out to be true (it might not, as it depends highly on two specific Forsaken not showing up) then even the reduction in Forsaken is explained. The 5 we are not seeing seems to correspond to the one who were struck by balefire on panel in the novels. As they have been removed from the Wheel entirely, they can't reappear in this new age we are getting on Prime.

[Jackalope89]

It was the guy who played Mat in season one, and his absence is why Mat didn't go through the way gate at the end of episode six. Nothing has been said as to why he left, but no one on the show has said anything but good things about him. There was a rumor that he wouldn't take the Covid vaccine, but he is sueing sites that openly said that for defamation - and since records of that are kept, it's either a false rumor or the dumbest lawsuit he could have filed. Since nobody who has worked with him has said even the smallest bad thing about him, I'm gonna say it was something personal, but not something stupid like refusing a shot required to travel to the job.

I think the way to look at adaptation changes is to take Brandon Sanderson's words to heart. This is another turning of the Wheel. Informed by, but not shackled by, what happened in the earlier turning we know from the novels. And if my personal fan theory thinks out to be true (it might not, as it depends highly on two specific Forsaken not showing up) then even the reduction in Forsaken is explained. The 5 we are not seeing seems to correspond to the one who were struck by balefire on panel in the novels. As they have been removed from the Wheel entirely, they can't reappear in this new age we are getting on Prime.

While I get what you're saying about the whole balefire stuff, it doesn't mean I have to like ALL the changes made. Like how fundamentally different the One Power was made, Lews Therin's reason for leading the 100 Companions, White Cloaks openly murdering Aes Sedai (yes, we know the stigma, but the power of the Amyrlin Seat is such that even the leader of the White Cloaks would come visit, if begrudglingly), The Two Rivers being turned into a village, rather than a being a region, and for a book series that went out of its way to give Female Empowerment, the live action series took a hard left turn like at the end of Season 1. I know season 2 is trying to ignore a very specific part, but wow. That literally negates one of the biggest narratives for Rand later on.

spoilers:

For those that didn't read the books, season 1 also negated one of Rand's biggest shows of power. In the end of the book, when the huge army of Tollocs is battling the Sheinaran army (it was not wiped out in seconds, thank you very much), Rand appears and wipes out the Trollocs by himself, cementing himself as the most powerful channeler, but still untrained. He doesn't just dip after the confrontation at the Eye (which, I understand some limitations, but other things for that were very disappointing), but stays there, with only a few people knowing who and what he is, but Rand is at odds with himself, not wanting to leave his friends, but not wanting to endanger them either.

end of spoilers
Its just, very hard for me to see this as "another turning".

This series isn't on the level of "slap in the face" like the Halo series was, but it has quite a few flaws that, as an adaptation of the books, it's hard for me to like it.

[Gray Lensman]

I agree with the part about the 100 companions, which sadly left the city as written (it was the only untouched part of the world) but left out the context to understand it, and also left out the alternate plan that spurred Lews and his 100 companions into action, the wacko superweapon that was capable of breaking the world all by itself.

So it makes Lews look like an arrogant idiot instead of a desperate man who knows that there is an even more desperate idea about to go off if he fails. We don't see the destruction of the War of Power because our first scene from it is in the ONE place on the planet not damaged by the war - that is a scene where stuff should have been changed from the books in order to communicate the stakes of the moment. Not mentioning the plan Lews was trying to avoid was also a mistake, no need to fully spell it out, just mention the name and say that using it won't leave a world behind to rebuild.

I enjoy the show as a whole, but there are certainly things I wish were done differently.

[Hiromi]

I begrudgingly gave season 2 a chance and was pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed it a lot more than season 1, which granted was a low bar but it had genuine qualities to it, I haven't liked a lot of casting decisions in it but credit where it's due the new Matt is good(though it continues to absolutely rankle me that they turned his father into an abusive *******), Elayne is really good, and Lanfear is in my opinion the single best casting of the entire series so far, she absolutely stole the whole season. Plot wise I agree it does seem that they're wrestling the series back in line where it should be overall at this point though in my opinion that means season 3 is going to be the make it or break it point. Some changes I didn't like, like what they did with Min, expanding Nynaeve's block to the point that she can't channel at all, and I still thought Moraine's shielding was a complete waste of time and added nothing of value(so glad that's resolved and over). With that said I was able to accept most of the arc as necessary to repair the damage done in season 1 if that's what it was. Finale is obviously leagues better than season 1, though again damning with faint praise there. Despite all the changes they managed to hit most of the main story beats from the book they needed to, something season 1 sorely failed at. I actually like the changes to Matt and the dagger, that was clever, credit where it's due again, don't mind them changing how Rand gets his never healing wound(honestly story doesn't lose anything important by simplifying that, those are the kinds of changes that are perfectly acceptable in adaptations), I was really pleasantly surprised that they didn't shy away from Egwene getting collared... until the ending of that particular plot. Seriously? They were so close to nailing the whole thing and it really hurt Nynaeve and Elayne's story to remove their role in it. So frustrating. As was not getting a proper Rand and Ishmael duel in the sky. Seriously Rafe at some point you're going to need to stop downplaying the PROTAGONIST of the flipping story. Glad that Perrin's story is back on track, and only one mention of the ham fisted dead wife in the entire season that I can remember. Won't lie if they just forget about that nonsense entirely going forward I'll be happy, acknowledge it was a mistake and move on. So they've got me back on board and cautiously optimistic about season 3.

[Sutekh]

I gave season 1 another go before starting season 2. I wasn't wowed the first time around, but I enjoyed it a lot more during the rewatch. I don't remember enough about the books (I never finished the series) to be bothered by any changes.

I liked Season 2, I think they did a good job bringing it all together for the finale. I've even started to like Nynaeve a bit (hated her in the books, and S1).

I am liking the show's versions of the various characters much more than the book versions, whom, at various times, I wanted to slap for their childish sexist tendencies to completely hide everything from either 'the untrustworthy women' or 'the undependable men' depending on whether or not they had a Y chromosome. As a character flaw for a single character, it could have been fine, but when half the damn cast of the book are keeping secrets from 'the dumb menfolk' or 'those scheming wimmin,' and it's the source of at least a third of the problems they are having, it got so old, so fast.

I read all the books up to the writers death, IIRC, but never got around to reading the Sanderson finish-up, because I had kind of lost the thread of what was going on by that point. "Oh, *another* Forsaken! Even scarier than the last Forsaken, who was scarier than the Forsaken before them, who was scarier... repeat until your head explodes."

So however the show ends, I'll be surprised, since I never read the official end.