Wheel of Time

[Zero Hunter]

I will be curious when and how they bring Matt back into the fold. Having one of your main cast just leave on you right at the end of filming had to have thrown the writers into a panic. I won't blame the writers too much if the finale feels a little clunky because of that.

[Ascended]

I will be curious when and how they bring Matt back into the fold. Having one of your main cast just leave on you right at the end of filming had to have thrown the writers into a panic. I won't blame the writers too much if the finale feels a little clunky because of that.

Same. When it comes to Mat, I'll forgive pretty much anything the writers have to do to bring things back around, including janky execution.

Why did the guy leave, anyway? I know the show has lost an actor or two who had signed on for real minor roles, and that makes sense to me; who wants to put their career on hold for a small role nobody's gonna care about? But Mat is one of the biggest characters in the story, arguably the second most important person next to the Dragon Reborn. Seems like it was going to be a steady, long-term gig. And if the budget is really as big as they've claimed I assume it was probably a solid paycheck too.

[Jackalope89]

Same. When it comes to Mat, I'll forgive pretty much anything the writers have to do to bring things back around, including janky execution.

Why did the guy leave, anyway? I know the show has lost an actor or two who had signed on for real minor roles, and that makes sense to me; who wants to put their career on hold for a small role nobody's gonna care about? But Mat is one of the biggest characters in the story, arguably the second most important person next to the Dragon Reborn. Seems like it was going to be a steady, long-term gig. And if the budget is really as big as they've claimed I assume it was probably a solid paycheck too.

I think it was to be the main character in some other series, but don't quote me on that.

A shame, either way, but here's hoping the new guy finds his footing and makes a good "Mat" as well.

[Gray Lensman]

Same. When it comes to Mat, I'll forgive pretty much anything the writers have to do to bring things back around, including janky execution.

Why did the guy leave, anyway? I know the show has lost an actor or two who had signed on for real minor roles, and that makes sense to me; who wants to put their career on hold for a small role nobody's gonna care about? But Mat is one of the biggest characters in the story, arguably the second most important person next to the Dragon Reborn. Seems like it was going to be a steady, long-term gig. And if the budget is really as big as they've claimed I assume it was probably a solid paycheck too.

Theory with minor spoilers for Book 2 - The Great Hunt spoilers:

I wonder if they can have Fain already in possession of the dagger, and Mat is brought along by Verin because he can help track it due to his partial connection. Since Verin only shows up after a little time has passed, it's probably the single best entry point. I also wonder if they might bring Thom back in at the same time - rather than have him pass in and out of the group for another season.

end of spoilers

No one is saying anything on why Harris left - maybe he reevaluated things if someone in his personal life had some kind of scare/brush with mortality. If he cut out for another show I can't imagine everything staying so quiet for as long as it has.

I know the books have been out for years, but I don't know if everyone posting here has read them, or if there are only "show only" posters. I figure it's best if I give them the chance to decide how spoiled they can get.

[Ascended]

I try to avoid posting major spoilers too, though I'm sure I forget to keep a lid on things at times. Apologies to our non-reading posters if I let anything slip, but in my defense this series has been out for over three decades; none of it feels like a spoiler to me.

But saying Mat was arguably the second biggest character isn't a spoiler, I don't think. All the kids from the Two Rivers play massive roles, and Mat's position as the #2 guy is largely subjective.

And I agree with your theory, that seems as viable an option as any.

[Jackalope89]

I try to avoid posting major spoilers too, though I'm sure I forget to keep a lid on things at times. Apologies to our non-reading posters if I let anything slip, but in my defense this series has been out for over three decades; none of it feels like a spoiler to me.

But saying Mat was arguably the second biggest character isn't a spoiler, I don't think. All the kids from the Two Rivers play massive roles, and Mat's position as the #2 guy is largely subjective.

And I agree with your theory, that seems as viable an option as any.

Well, from a book only standpoint; if you look at the scope of Mat and where he went, some could call him #2. But Perrin's actions were just as important, if not as widespread.

I think avoided any spoilers.

[CSTowle]

I'd say all 5 of them have major moments and roles to play. Mat's my favorite, and Barney Harris has been my favorite actor in the series so far so it's a one-two gut punch, but it's been good enough starting with Episode 3 that I'm willing to wait and see.

[BeastieRunner]

WHEEL OF TIME become Amazon's most successful television series premiere to date.

Seems that it will be safe for another two seasons.

[Jackalope89]

WHEEL OF TIME become Amazon's most successful television series premiere to date.

Seems that it will be safe for another two seasons.

Excellent. Because its after book 1 (and season 1) that things REALLY take it up to another level.

[Ascended]

I'd say all 5 of them have major moments and roles to play.

They absolutely do. All the Two Rivers folks are pretty integral to the plot and the Last Battle.

And I agree that Harris has been the best/most fun actor in the season. They've all done a really good job but Harris just nailed the role so perfectly. But I'm perfectly willing to give the new guy a shot too, I'm attached to Mat the character, not Harris the actor, and if the new guy can do Mat justice I'll be satisfied.

I tell you what, I'm really intrigued by seeing what Rand's actor can do with the material he'll have in future seasons. I imagine it's gonna take legit skill to do the role justice. I wonder how they cast him? Did they have him just do material from season/book 1, or did they see how he'd handle the stuff that comes later? I'd hope they'd have the foresight to ensure the actor can handle what's coming.

Excellent. Because its after book 1 (and season 1) that things REALLY take it up to another level.

Agreed. The series does a fantastic job of topping itself with each new entry and building on what came before in compelling and surprising ways. I'd argue the series doesn't really hit its stride until around book 4 or 5, and that's a little concerning because I don't want the show to be cancelled before it has a chance to establish those concepts/events. We're getting season 2, and I think they approved season 3 as well? I figure if we can get that far, we'll probably manage to get to book 6, and if we make it as far as that without the showrunners screwing up, then we'll be safe from early cancellation. No way they get through book 6 and all the crazy, awesome stuff there, and then not finish the rest of the story.

[BeastieRunner]

Season 3 isn't official yet but sounds like it is only a matter of time due to the streaming numbers.

I could see them getting the Great Hunt and Dragon Reborn cranked out in 8-10 episodes (rumor has it season 2 was given more episodes).

That gives us Shadow Rising in season 3 ... And that crazy opening would probably help greenlight a season 4 & 5.

[Coin Biter]

Watched the finale just now.

I can’t say I was exactly… overwhelmed, although it’s fair to say it’s going to be an ending which is more likely to be divisive among book readers than non-book readers, who are at worst going to respond with “eh, that was a bit confusing and not too sure what they were exactly going for, but OK I kind of guess although spoilers:

can’t say I was exactly invested in that Perrin dude or the Dragon Reborn’s major climatic conflict being to not warp his girlfriend into fulfilling his familial expectations

end of spoilers” as a critical comment.

[Coin Biter]

Things I liked, things which I thought were broadly OK, and things I was exceedingly unimpressed by. Spoilers include not just the last episode but also extensive book spoilers, as fair warning:

spoilers:

The Good: 1. Ishamael has been cast extremely well. Making him a threat due to his manipulation rather than a direct physical threat was a sensible move, and the effortless superiority that he should display at this point of the story (given they’re probably not going for the “he’s forgotten who he really is” angle) was well shown in his confrontation with Moiraine. I would have liked him appearing in dreams in previous episodes, though, I think that would have given his appearance in this one much more resonance. 2. The fact that Ishamael evidently tricked them was also a sensible story change which many predicted, and prevents him from being the late-appearing threat who gets repeatedly ganked after his mindtricks fail that he was in the first few books. 3. The last conversation between Agelmar and his sister was well done, and partially redeems him from being the obdurate dimwit that he was in episode 7 (only partially though because the episode also reveals that a handful of sisters under the command of someone with very little real power can effectively solo a massive Trolloc army, so yeah, this situation does still seem to be your fault, Agelmar, sorry). The OK: 1. Has Fain been to Shadar Logoth? He seems fairly “with it”. Maybe they’ll have Padan Fain change in the same way that he did in the books in season 2? Even if they don’t, though, I’m broadly OK with straightforwardly uber-darkfriend Padan Fain, because book wildcard crazy Padan Fain was a promising character who turned out to be exceedingly underwhelming. 2. The special effects. Only season 1, could have been worse. 3. The resolution at the Eye of the World and Rand wandering off to walk the world, like Caine in Kung Fu. 4. Whatever’s happened to Moiraine, which I’d say is too early to say whether it’s going to be good or bad. 5. Giving Egwene the ability to be a super healer. What I didn’t like: 1. I get that they wanted to make the conflict between the male channellers who wanted to seal the Dark One and the women channellers who thought it was a bad idea more balanced than it is at least implied to have been by suggesting that they knew in advance that there might be a problem with the Dark One tainting the One Power… but they didn’t really make it look like a desperation move from Lews Therin to make his choice more understandable. Showing an environment ravaged by horrible conflict would have been a better choice than an idyllic background which makes Lews look like an idiot who decided to destroy paradise because of his ego. 2. OK obviously there were budget limitations, but hang on, all of Agelmar’s apparently small force just firing crossbows ineffectually through windows in an easily surmounted wall? Maybe the solution to not being able to show the battle well, would have been not to show the battle at all? 3. A small and (mostly) untrained circle wiping out 20,000 trollocs? Egwene can without any training effectively resurrect Nyn? 4. Perrin’s characterisation has massively suffered this season. Maybe another episode with Elyas would have helped, but giving Perrin the extraordinary trauma of accidentally axing his wife, along with whatever feelings he is supposed to have for Egwene, along with a frankly mystifying wolf-connection, along with the confrontation with Fain… it just hasn’t worked. I’d blame the writing rather than the acting because honestly I’d say the most naturally gifted actor in the world would have struggled with the material he’s been given this season. There’s going to have to be a Perrin-centred episode pretty early in season 2 for this mess to be resolved.

end of spoilers

I will watch season 2, though

[Jackalope89]

That was...disappointing.
spoilers:

I know the book the ending is a mess, but you at least get feeling of bigger things to come, and the terrifying power that Rand can wield. In this, he can channel. Great. And, that's about it. Agelmar and his sister both biting it, not a fan of that writing in general. And Uno and Loial? If they're dead, I riot. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Perrin's character arc was pretty much absent from the series. It almost touches on it, and then skips past it. Which is a real shame. His main thing was a hinted at love triangle, which is unconfirmed by the showrunners, but "embraced" by some of the show fandom. The channelers outside of Fal Dara was well done, in theory. What happened is part of the overall lore, just not a fan of it happening in this instance. And only 20k Trollocs? Book had 100k. With Rand literally popping in as the soldiers are about to be overrun, and then annihilates the army. Wiping out 20k with a few either weak or inexperienced (but powerful) channelers... I can see. But narratively, and being out in the open, rather than on the wall behind them, just doesn't do it for me. At least with the Seanchan, the ending wasn't a complete bust. But overall, though it started well, it went out with a bad wimper.

end of spoilers

[Gray Lensman]

My take is...mixed.

spoilers:

A lot of the stuff I liked in theory I didn't like in execution. I liked the temptation of Rand, and the actor playing The Dark One (actually Isamael but the characters don't know that yet) was excellent. Lan speaking the lines directly from the book to Nyneave. The circle gives extra lore, but should not have been out in an open field - don't trollocs understand archery? I was pretty sure Egwene didn't actually heal death (just mostly dead), but the direction should have made sure to show some small movement or breathing to show the audience that the Wisdom wasn't all dead. Although Egwene having any ability to heal at all is a change from the books - her talents lay in a different area. Not sure if Agelmar's armor saved his life or not - it might depend on whether or not they can get the same actor back in 7 seasons or so. TV shows have to contend with the fact that actors gotta eat to (not all of them make millions, after all) and keeping the same person through a multi-season gap in appearances in far from assured. I think that's one of the reasons (besides budget) Caemlyn got skipped in season one. Casting Elayne for one episode and then having her take a starring role elsewhere wouldn't be a good thing. I wish Lan could have done something other than just show up at the end - have this guy fight something! I don't think Loial or Uno are dead - although Not Ingtar probably is (he took a multi-season starring role elsewhere and was suddenly not Ingtar anymore out of necessity). Both actors have been seen filming in season 2 - I think for Loial specifically this is from not having Barney Harris available, so something daggar related has to happen to someone who was actually there. I understand Perrin - it took him longer to be willing to fight because of what violence cost him earlier. I just wish it could have come an episode or two earlier so he would have done something in the finale. I think they are going to run the events of book 2 and 3 simultaneously next season - so the team didn't get back together just yet. Lastly, I don't think Morraine is actually stilled, just shielded with a tied off weave - something that seems to be lost in this turning of the wheel - no Aes Sedai has done it yet as far as I know.

end of spoilers