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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    They adopted a lot of those kids and it's messed up say only Frank and Val are their actual kids.
    But they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Bentley, Vil, Wu, Artie, Leech, and the Moloids are just as much their kids as Frank and Val. Just because they aren't their biological kids doesn't make them any less important and to say otherwise is a bad look.
    Reed and Sue aren't saying the other kids aren't important. It's not like they cruelly cast them aside. They just let them continue on having adventures.

    If anything, it's clear that Franklin would rather be still out there with the rest of the FF kids instead of being stuck at home.

    The real world explanation for only Franklin and Val staying with Reed and Sue, of course, is that keeping all the other kids in the cast would make for a very unwieldly book. And also that, surely, it was already known before the current run launched that the rest of the FF would be getting their own title eventually.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    But they are.
    No, they are their biological kids. That's it. All of them are their kids. To have some kind of hierarchy is incredibly f*cked up.



    Reed and Sue aren't saying the other kids aren't important. It's not like they cruelly cast them aside. They just let them continue on having adventures.

    If anything, it's clear that Franklin would rather be still out there with the rest of the FF kids instead of being stuck at home.

    The real world explanation for only Franklin and Val staying with Reed and Sue, of course, is that keeping all the other kids in the cast would make for a very unwieldly book. And also that, surely, it was already known before the current run launched that the rest of the FF would be getting their own title eventually.
    As I said before, Frank and Val should have gone with the Foundation. To not do that poses them as being more important to the family than the kids they adopted. That's messed up and a sh*tty message to send. If Franklin preferred to be out there with them, then why didn't he go? Either use all of them in some way or none of the kids if you can't handle such a big cast.
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  3. #48
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    Reed and Sue do not value the FF kids any less than their own because Reed offered to take them all home and Sue confirmed how proud she was of them. They agreed to go look for their friend. Frank would not want to go because of Griever and all those dead worlds. Val wouldn't want to suddenly be without her parents and Frank. The book is less interesting without Frank and Val. This is the best-case scenario and it makes much more sense than when Fraction did it, and Fraction already did it, so precedent established.

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Reed and Sue do not value the FF kids any less than their own because Reed offered to take them all home and Sue confirmed how proud she was of them. They agreed to go look for their friend. Frank would not want to go because of Griever and all those dead worlds. Val wouldn't want to suddenly be without her parents and Frank. The book is less interesting without Frank and Val. This is the best-case scenario and it makes much more sense than when Fraction did it, and Fraction already did it, so precedent established.
    That was never said in the book. They just left saying bye only to Frank and Val like they were friends made at summer camp. They didn't even interact with Reed and Sue to say goodbye, it wasn't treated like members of the family going away.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    No, they are their biological kids. That's it. All of them are their kids. To have some kind of hierarchy is incredibly f*cked up.
    You know these aren't real kids, right?

    The Foundation kids aren't being emotionally damaged because they think Reed and Sue don't value them as much as their biological children.

    They're all just imaginary people.

    And within the book itself, it's not like there's a "hierarchy" in place. Reed and Sue wanted Franklin and Val to come home with them.

    As much as they love the Foundation kids and consider them family, it really isn't their right to demand they give up exploring and live on Earth with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    As I said before, Frank and Val should have gone with the Foundation. To not do that poses them as being more important to the family than the kids they adopted. That's messed up and a sh*tty message to send. If Franklin preferred to be out there with them, then why didn't he go? Either use all of them in some way or none of the kids if you can't handle such a big cast.
    To say that anywhere Franklin and Val goes, the rest of the Foundation kids must follow or else a bad message is being sent is ridiculous.

    Reed and Sue have never expressed anything but love towards the Foundation kids. Just because they're not with them doesn't mean they don't care about them.

    Every future writer of the FF shouldn't be duty bound to include the Foundation kids for worry that they might be sending the wrong message about whether adopted children are loved or not.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    This was a really fun issue. Small thing but i love that the kids looked like kids especially. It added more oomph to the story. Only downside is franklin is SUCH an emo. But i get it, i really do. It's just i wasn't a sad sack teen so it's hard to connect to a bit but i do understand it.
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  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    You know these aren't real kids, right?

    The Foundation kids aren't being emotionally damaged because they think Reed and Sue don't value them as much as their biological children.

    They're all just imaginary people.

    And within the book itself, it's not like there's a "hierarchy" in place. Reed and Sue wanted Franklin and Val to come home with them.

    As much as they love the Foundation kids and consider them family, it really isn't their right to demand they give up exploring and live on Earth with them.
    I know what imaginary is...

    It's about how it looks outside of the story when Frank and Val get special treatment and focus because they are the biological children.


    To say that anywhere Franklin and Val goes, the rest of the Foundation kids must follow or else a bad message is being sent is ridiculous.

    Reed and Sue have never expressed anything but love towards the Foundation kids. Just because they're not with them doesn't mean they don't care about them.

    Every future writer of the FF shouldn't be duty bound to include the Foundation kids for worry that they might be sending the wrong message about whether adopted children are loved or not.
    You're obviously not getting it.

    Frank and Val get more focus and are grouped as a part of the main family while the other kids are not because they are biologically related. That's a messed up message to send whether intentional or not. It's not about the use of all characters at all times, it's about when stories focus on the "main" family, the adopted kids are often nowhere to be seen. This run so far being "all about family" rings hollow when a significant portion of the family have been shipped off.

    Also, if I'm being honest, if a writer can't handle all of the family maybe they aren't right for the job. Just saying.
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  8. #53
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    Honestly, I think it's just a dick move on Slott's part to peddle the family angle while their adopted children are in the multiverse. It just seems tone deaf.

  9. #54
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    Nobody can handle all of the family because the family is too big to be the main cast of a single title. The FF might as well have not been in Robinson's run. They work best in their own space in their own book or off doing something else as actual characters instead of being X-Men. I mean, pointless wallpaper. They are all a family, but there is a task that must be done and the kids best suited to be apart from the core group chose to go do it. There is no biological conspiracy in a franchise where Ben and Alicia are just the uncle and aunt and Reed dotes on how quickly he wants the FF to come back home and mushy goodbyes are had.

  10. #55
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Honestly, I think it's just a dick move on Slott's part to peddle the family angle while their adopted children are in the multiverse. It just seems tone deaf.
    That's way too many characters for Slott to juggle. The cast would've larger than his Iron Man and his ASM ones. Even Fraction and Robinson separated Reed and Sue from the kids.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I know what imaginary is...

    It's about how it looks outside of the story when Frank and Val get special treatment and focus because they are the biological children.




    You're obviously not getting it.

    Frank and Val get more focus and are grouped as a part of the main family while the other kids are not because they are biologically related. That's a messed up message to send whether intentional or not. It's not about the use of all characters at all times, it's about when stories focus on the "main" family, the adopted kids are often nowhere to be seen. This run so far being "all about family" rings hollow when a significant portion of the family have been shipped off.

    Also, if I'm being honest, if a writer can't handle all of the family maybe they aren't right for the job. Just saying.
    You say this all as if it's Slott's fault that Reed and Sue took Franklin and Val alone -- when that all started back in Fraction's run.
    Now to be perfectly honest -- I much preferred Fraction's FF storyline to his Fantastic Four storyline -- but both suffered from some annoying character developments.

    Leading up to this series -- the first appearance of Val and Franklin were in that Point One storyline where Val is trying to contact and get back to her Uncles Johnny and Ben. So continuing on that vein -- having the 2 kids split from the Future Foundation does make sense. What I believe Slott is trying to do is putting the core family in the position where they can focus on Reed and Sue dealing with the kids becoming independent from their parents.

    I would like to see the Future Foundation series intersect with Fantastic Four and the characters from both groups split time within both series -- building into a family of series.

    I do agree they aged the kids up too much -- in my mind, Franklin should have been 13-14 range and Val 8-10. I think that would have played out better.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I know what imaginary is...

    It's about how it looks outside of the story when Frank and Val get special treatment and focus because they are the biological children.
    You know how it looks to you.

    I would say your reaction is on the extreme end and that most readers understand that this isn't making a statement about biological vs. adopted children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    You're obviously not getting it.
    On the contrary, I think you're seeing an agenda where there is none.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Frank and Val get more focus and are grouped as a part of the main family while the other kids are not because they are biologically related. That's a messed up message to send whether intentional or not. It's not about the use of all characters at all times, it's about when stories focus on the "main" family, the adopted kids are often nowhere to be seen. This run so far being "all about family" rings hollow when a significant portion of the family have been shipped off.
    They weren't "shipped off." They choose, happily and of their own free will, to continue exploring. They weren't left behind or abandoned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Also, if I'm being honest, if a writer can't handle all of the family maybe they aren't right for the job. Just saying.
    The FF has a lot of people they consider family. They can't all be part of the main cast.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    No extreme reaction, you're just exaggerating what I'm saying.

    I'm saying that it's a bad look whenever the Foundation get shipped out. And you're imagining that I said it's some agenda from Marvel.

    I've said what I've always said, that it's not a good look. Never said it was intentionally done in a malicious way, that's your wrong interpretation of my posts. I stand by what I say and I'm done with this topic.
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  14. #59
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    It's the difference between "We're a family" and not mentioning the FF members they adopted and "Everyone might not be here, but we're still a family." It's just a little acknowledgement that would have helped. I'm not asking for them to be present. I'm asking for the slightest acknowledgement from the characters.

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm about done. My fears are realized. It's become more of the Val-Franklin book, they can't get an artist to draw even a whole issue let alone the first 11? That is absurd. Kirby drew 101 straight issues. They now are spinning off additional books, that I am sure we will need to read to follow the story. I have pre-orders the next 3, after that I am out. And they had a useless Event tie in issue last time.Too bad I had such hopes. But it just confirms why I left the Marvel Universe a few years ago.
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