Does anyone remember (Hatable Alfred)?

[Tzigone]

Was reading old thread on unhatable characters, and Alfred was mentioned several times. Now, I like Alfred. Someone mentioned something along the lines of Alfred too often being regarded as sacred/unquestionable or some such. And that was an interesting point.

Anyway, it immediately made me think of a particular scene where I was hating on Alfred. The thing is, I can't remember what issue or story it was in. I hope I didn't make it up.

It's early in Tim's days, and the topic of Jason comes up. And Alfred say something along the lines of Jason having been a stand-in for Dick, but Tim has the potential to make Robin his own. Something along those lines, anyway. Does anyone remember this?

Also, anyone have any hatable Alfred moments they want to share?

[Restingvoice]

We Are Robin or just Superheavy in general when he wants Bruce to be happily amnesia and no longer endanger himself as Batman, to the point where he probably convinced Damian who's still ten at the time to let him go and take care of other kids in the orphanage, and then to guard Gotham he anonymously sent Robin uniforms and tools to street kids or kids looking for a purpose, then one of them die from a bomb they tried to disarm

Never addressed again, of course

[TravelerInTheDark]

Snyder's Alfred is the worst incarnation of the character, bar none.

[Pohzee]

Alfred unlikeable? Color me shocked!

[Restingvoice]

Snyder's Alfred is the worst incarnation of the character, bar none.

In general?

[MajorHoy]

. . . it immediately made me think of a particular scene where I was hating on Alfred. The thing is, I can't remember what issue or story it was in. I hope I didn't make it up.

It's early in Tim's days, and the topic of Jason comes up. And Alfred say something along the lines of Jason having been a stand-in for Dick, but Tim has the potential to make Robin his own. Something along those lines, anyway. Does anyone remember this?

Can't remember the specifics, but why would this make you "hate Alfred"?

How much of Jason's run as Robin (pre-return as Red Hood) did you read when it was originally published? In the beginning, he was basically a Dick-lite, complete with circus aerialist parents killed by a crook (Killer Croc).
[NOTE: Their deaths were as a result of the Todds doing some snooping for Dick, who was still Robin back then.]

Post-CoIE, Jason's origin/background was changed where he was taken on by Batman after Jason stole tires off of the Batmobile.

In both versions, Jason never really shined as a Robin (due in part to writers who didn't want to deal with him) and was always trapped by the legacy of Dick, never moving beyond Dick's shadow. Alfred was probably telling Tim he had the potential to truly make the Robin identity his own and not just be a shadow of Dick's legacy.
What's so horrible / hateful about that?

[Tzigone]

Can't remember the specifics, but why would this make you "hate Alfred"?

How much of Jason's run as Robin (pre-return as Red Hood) did you read when it was originally published? In the beginning, he was basically a Dick-lite, complete with circus aerialist parents killed by a crook (Killer Croc).
[NOTE: Their deaths were as a result of the Todds doing some snooping for Dick, who was still Robin back then.]

Post-CoIE, Jason's origin/background was changed where he was taken on by Batman after Jason stole tires off of the Batmobile.

In both versions, Jason never really shined as a Robin (due in part to writers who didn't want to deal with him) and was always trapped by the legacy of Dick, never moving beyond Dick's shadow. Alfred was probably telling Tim he had the potential to truly make the Robin identity his own and not just be a shadow of Dick's legacy.
What's so horrible / hateful about that?

I've read all Jason's post-Crisis issues as Robin. I thought Jason was a fine Robin. It makes me hate Alfred because he is bad-mouthing a dead child and calling him unworthy. Unfairly, IMO. And because, although I am not a particular fan of Jason (never even read any of his books as Red Hood because I'm not an anti-hero fan), I hate that DC spent years pretending he was excessively violent (he was no more so than Bruce) and in particular that he was reckless (again, he was no more so than Dick, or Tim for that matter) and that it was his own fault he died. It's even more insulting because he died trying to save another, someone who'd betrayed him. He was a hero this last breath. And yet DC wanted to treat him like he was always destined to fail, a bad seed, an inferior candidate. The unfairness (and IMO, inaccuracy) of it grates on me very much.

[Arsenal]

Can't remember the specifics, but why would this make you "hate Alfred"?

How much of Jason's run as Robin (pre-return as Red Hood) did you read when it was originally published? In the beginning, he was basically a Dick-lite, complete with circus aerialist parents killed by a crook (Killer Croc).
[NOTE: Their deaths were as a result of the Todds doing some snooping for Dick, who was still Robin back then.]

Post-CoIE, Jason's origin/background was changed where he was taken on by Batman after Jason stole tires off of the Batmobile.

In both versions, Jason never really shined as a Robin (due in part to writers who didn't want to deal with him) and was always trapped by the legacy of Dick, never moving beyond Dick's shadow. Alfred was probably telling Tim he had the potential to truly make the Robin identity his own and not just be a shadow of Dick's legacy.
What's so horrible / hateful about that?

If all he wanted to do was say Tim had potential, that’s all he needed to say. Going out of one’s way to state that a dead child was nothing more than a stand in for his predecessor is kind of a dick move.

[Jim Kelly]

Funny how I tend to misread topic titles. I read the title as saying hat-able and guessed there was a version of Alfred that's referred to as Hatable Alfred--imagining that he was an Alfred who wore hats and maybe did tricks with them. It was quite the surprise to find I'd totally misread hatable.

[MajorHoy]

If all he wanted to do was say Tim had potential, that’s all he needed to say. Going out of one’s way to state that a dead child was nothing more than a stand in for his predecessor is kind of a dick move.

Do you have the exact quote of what Alfred was shown as saying to Tim in whatever comic book that was?

For all we know, people might be arguing over a point that was not properly remembered by the OP in terms of what exactly was said regarding Jason.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Telltale Alfred was a piece of work, pretty much all the events of those games could have been avoided if Alfred wasn’t such an enabling coward. And my Bruce did not hold back when it came time to call him out on that. Or any problems with letting him out the door in the end.

[Sergard]

After Jason's death there was a lot of victim-blaming and reducing Jason to only negative character traits. Here's an old forum post with examples. It's not only Alfred. Pretty much everyone started to blame Jason for being murdered and to say that he was a bad Robin. It is how it is, but I wouldn't solely isolate Alfred and hate on Alfred when Bruce, Dick and others did the same.

[Tzigone]

After Jason's death there was a lot of victim-blaming and reducing Jason to only negative character traits. Here's an old forum post with examples. It's not only Alfred. Pretty much everyone started to blame Jason for being murdered and to say that he was a bad Robin. It is how it is, but I wouldn't solely isolate Alfred and hate on Alfred when Bruce, Dick and others did the same.

True. But I already kinda hated Bruce - I started reading DC comics with (mostly) backissues of Robin, Nightwing, and BoP from issue #1 up to right before Steph became Robin. By that time (early 2000s), Bruce was pretty Batdick (though he had some nice stuff in early Robin and even an early Nightwing). I always heard good things about Alfred's relationship with Jason, so went I went back to read all the post-COIE young Jason issues later, it was a disappointment to see it from Alfred, too.

[adrikito]

I had difficulties with Earth 1 Batman Alfred..

But he saved Bruce from the Penguin(killing him)..

Earth One Alfred.jpg

Talking about this.. The Earth 1 volume 3 was confirmed few years ago and nothing for now..

[Vakanai]

Hatable? Yeah, I don't see why you couldn't put a hat on him.