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  1. #76
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Makes me long for Thomas, Stern and Gillis all the more.
    Sigh.
    I'd add Englehart to that list as well.

  2. #77
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I'd add Englehart to that list as well.
    Yes, Englehart, too.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  3. #78
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    Iím just wondering why they waited so long to do it.
    I may be wrong (my recent history has been spotty), but I was under the impression Doc's hands had healed but his attitude was that he's be a sorcerer keeping his current job. But this seems to be a natural direction. The story seems like something that is an outstanding issue with Doc. Kinda like Slott's latest "Point of Origin" story with the FF.

    Has Strange ever been shown to have an addictive personality? His statements about the thrill of surgery sound like he is hooked on it more so than a love for one's career.

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I may be wrong (my recent history has been spotty), but I was under the impression Doc's hands had healed but his attitude was that he's be a sorcerer keeping his current job. But this seems to be a natural direction. The story seems like something that is an outstanding issue with Doc. Kinda like Slott's latest "Point of Origin" story with the FF.

    Has Strange ever been shown to have an addictive personality? His statements about the thrill of surgery sound like he is hooked on it more so than a love for one's career.
    How long has strange been the sorcerer supreme? Can you just pick up where you left off as a surgeon after such a long hiatus?

  5. #80
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    How long has strange been the sorcerer supreme? Can you just pick up where you left off as a surgeon after such a long hiatus?
    Strange became Sorcerer Supreme was back in the early seventies, Marvel Premiere 14, I think. How long that's been in Marvel time, who knows? I'm not sure the title was reflected in many other series back then so pinpointing it with other Marvel events could be tough. My best guess is at least the better part of a decade anyway. I'd guess his reputation would carry him, but honestly, I'm not familiar with the profession. I guess if we can accept the ghost dog and flying cape, we can accept his return to his career.

  6. #81
    Fantastic Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Strange became Sorcerer Supreme was back in the early seventies, Marvel Premiere 14, I think. How long that's been in Marvel time, who knows? I'm not sure the title was reflected in many other series back then so pinpointing it with other Marvel events could be tough. My best guess is at least the better part of a decade anyway. I'd guess his reputation would carry him, but honestly, I'm not familiar with the profession. I guess if we can accept the ghost dog and flying cape, we can accept his return to his career.
    Well, he used to be the Master of Black Magic.
    There’s a neat article here on CBR...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr...stic-arts/amp/

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    I’m w. Frontier in that this didn’t warrant a relaunch.

    A book that’s been cancelled multiple times undermines the character’s validity. Why not just let the book build its numbers?
    Because that's not how it works.

    Numbers tend to drop, not build.

    I'd rather see a book get relaunched, showing that the publisher is still invested in the character, than just have them let a title limp to cancellation.

    If someone was already buying and enjoying Waid's Strange run, they'd be buying the next issue regardless of the number on the cover. So a relaunch shouldn't affect them in the least. If a new #1 should prompt some new readers to jump on as well, where's the harm?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Makes me long for Thomas, Stern and Gillis all the more.
    Sigh.
    Why? Waid's run has been damn good. It stacks up very well against the best Strange has had.

  9. #84
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Because that's not how it works.

    Numbers tend to drop, not build.

    I'd rather see a book get relaunched, showing that the publisher is still invested in the character, than just have them let a title limp to cancellation.

    If someone was already buying and enjoying Waid's Strange run, they'd be buying the next issue regardless of the number on the cover. So a relaunch shouldn't affect them in the least. If a new #1 should prompt some new readers to jump on as well, where's the harm?
    Although Strange's sales seemed steady enough that, again, I don't think a relaunch was necessary. If most relaunches as of late prove anything it's that the title will probably run for about as long as it would have had they not relaunched at all, especially when the numbers are more of then not the same or fall to the same numbers fairly quickly.

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Although Strange's sales seemed steady enough that, again, I don't think a relaunch was necessary. If most relaunches as of late prove anything it's that the title will probably run for about as long as it would have had they not relaunched at all, especially when the numbers are more of then not the same or fall to the same numbers fairly quickly.
    I will look for the quote from Jordan White( I believe it was when he was on the Battle of Atom podcast recently) but he basically said they can see a clear difference between ongoings that don't stop numbering and ongoings that relaunch.I am pretty sure that he said they see pattern of growth when they relaunch than if they didn't relaunch. I think fans have to get over it is better for books to relaunch in this market today. I mean TV shows do it every season there is a brand new number 1 every season. Comic books are slow to make changes that are beneficial to the industry.

  11. #86
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I will look for the quote from Jordan White( I believe it was when he was on the Battle of Atom podcast recently) but he basically said they can see a clear difference between ongoings that don't stop numbering and ongoings that relaunch.I am pretty sure that he said they see pattern of growth when they relaunch than if they didn't relaunch. I think fans have to get over it is better for books to relaunch in this market today. I mean TV shows do it every season there is a brand new number 1 every season. Comic books are slow to make changes that are beneficial to the industry.

    I don't think there's a pattern of growth. There's an artificial spike in numbers, but a pattern of diminishing returns. Every relaunch gets smaller numbers for those fake #1, and a quicker drop off, that often settles in at a lower level than the previous book. Every 'jumping on' point is also a jumping off point.

    I agree, comics book companies are slow to make changes that actually benefit the industry. But they are fast to go for the quick buck and make changes that paint themselves into smaller and smaller corners. Constant relaunches aren't beneficial to the industry, at all. It's just another make a fast buck gimmick that has engendered yet another self fulfilling detrimental situation where they are 'forced' into cannibalizing their own sales.

    TV shows don't relaunch every season. Yes, there's a new number 1 one episode ever year, but they don't change the name of the TV show every year, or the entire creative team. And each year is clearly delineated by the season number. And often there's a cliff hanger or hook that pulls the viewer from one season into the next. Regardless. comics don't need to follow TV shows, and movies. They are a different medium. TV shows and movies should follow and be inspired by comics.

    It is beyond confusing to a new reader or anyone that hasn't been following her, to pick up Captain Marvel, for example, with her multiple relaunches. And then to make things really confusing, let's throw in the ridiculous 'Legacy' numbering (like they did for Strange), and bounce back and forth between that and relaunches. I work in a library, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen people's eyes glaze over and interest wane, when I try to explain which book to read and what follows what. And that's AFTER I've spent time looking up this stupid information, cause I certainly can't keep all of it straight.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I don't think there's a pattern of growth. There's an artificial spike in numbers, but a pattern of diminishing returns. Every relaunch gets smaller numbers for those fake #1, and a quicker drop off, that often settles in at a lower level than the previous book. Every 'jumping on' point is also a jumping off point.

    I agree, comics book companies are slow to make changes that actually benefit the industry. But they are fast to go for the quick buck and make changes that paint themselves into smaller and smaller corners. Constant relaunches aren't beneficial to the industry, at all. It's just another make a fast buck gimmick that has engendered yet another self fulfilling detrimental situation where they are 'forced' into cannibalizing their own sales.

    TV shows don't relaunch every season. Yes, there's a new number 1 one episode ever year, but they don't change the name of the TV show every year, or the entire creative team. And each year is clearly delineated by the season number. And often there's a cliff hanger or hook that pulls the viewer from one season into the next. Regardless. comics don't need to follow TV shows, and movies. They are a different medium. TV shows and movies should follow and be inspired by comics.

    It is beyond confusing to a new reader or anyone that hasn't been following her, to pick up Captain Marvel, for example, with her multiple relaunches. And then to make things really confusing, let's throw in the ridiculous 'Legacy' numbering (like they did for Strange), and bounce back and forth between that and relaunches. I work in a library, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen people's eyes glaze over and interest wane, when I try to explain which book to read and what follows what. And that's AFTER I've spent time looking up this stupid information, cause I certainly can't keep all of it straight.
    This tactic, which I see most at marvel, has really dented my enthusiasm for their new series and picking up their trades, if it's not totally clear with a quick look on the spine or cover, I just don't bother any more

    And I rarely go for new books coz I just anticipate a cancellation or relaunch a couple dozen issues in

  13. #88
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    what make comic more money

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Numbers tend to drop, not build.
    Unless it is a title like Immortal Hulk. I think that is the only ongoing at the moment where the opposite is true and, if Bleeding Cool are to be believed, even that was scheduled to be relaunched at #25. But that changed because its numbers are growing from issue to issue.

    Back to the topic at hand, I don't mind relaunches as much as I once did provided there is a reason for it. While this may appear to be a storyline that could have easily been another arc in Waid's current run, we haven't read it. The entire dynamic of the book might be turned upside down to the point it warrants the relaunch. Which makes sense in a way.

    I don't really mind in the long run. Just so long as they keep the legacy numbering. Doctor Strange has been relaunched before, so what's one more?
    Last edited by Somecrazyaussie; 09-15-2019 at 04:17 AM.

  15. #90
    Mario Di Giacomo Beware Of Geek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I don't think there's a pattern of growth. There's an artificial spike in numbers, but a pattern of diminishing returns. Every relaunch gets smaller numbers for those fake #1, and a quicker drop off, that often settles in at a lower level than the previous book. Every 'jumping on' point is also a jumping off point.
    Sales numbers support this. We can look at the Coates Black Panther run for an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Back to the topic at hand, I don't mind relaunches as much as I once did provided there is a reason for it. While this may appear to be a storyline that could have easily been another arc in Waid's current run, we haven't read it. The entire dynamic of the book might be turned upside down to the point it warrants the relaunch. Which makes sense in a way.
    Frankly, I can't think of ANY status quo change that would warrant a relaunch by the same writer. But then, I've been reading comics for a very long time, and I'm old-fashioned that way.
    Mario Di Giacomo

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