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  1. #46
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Still stupid as hell that Finesse is working for AIM with zero qualms about hurting innocents with no explanation considering she was part of the Avengers Academy.
    Finesse is the least empathic of the Avengers Academy. I can see her in Hydra even. As she grows older, she’ll be more like a Bloody Mary villain, or morphing into a Punisher, or Electra. Currently she is like Anakin Skywalker, and only needs one incident to turn her into Darth Vader.

  2. #47
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Finesse is the least empathic of the Avengers Academy. I can see her in Hydra even. As she grows older, she’ll be more like a Bloody Mary villain, or morphing into a Punisher, or Electra. Currently she is like Anakin Skywalker, and only needs one incident to turn her into Darth Vader.
    And as has been stated, the Finesse that appears in Unstoppable Wasp may as well be a completely different character for how she’s portrayed. Even with her cold logic and wanting to improve herself, she was never a thug who basically treats beating on others as fun. With how emotionally stunted that she was, if she were to break bad, she’d be nothing like how she’s portrayed. And if you’re going to have a character pull a heel-turn off-panel, at least drop a line or give some explanation.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Finesse is the least empathic of the Avengers Academy. I can see her in Hydra even. As she grows older, she’ll be more like a Bloody Mary villain, or morphing into a Punisher, or Electra. Currently she is like Anakin Skywalker, and only needs one incident to turn her into Darth Vader.
    She's not the least empathic, she's simply the least demonstrative. She feels emotions, and struggles to understand the basic contradictions of every day life. Like a good number of people with autism and other behavioral disorders.

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    I can totally buy that Finesse went evil after the end of AA. The only part that struck me as ooc was her seemingly taking pleasure in hurting innocent people. Her being a baddie, I get that, but she always seemed more clinical and detached than that.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsan52 View Post
    I’m talking:

    The New Warriors
    Initiative recruits (both new and already existing characters)
    Prodigy and The Slingers
    Loners
    Young Avengers
    Avengers Academy
    Aegis
    Ultragirl
    Devlor
    Vibraxis
    Wild Streak
    Etc.

    By “middle generation” I mean those older than The Champions but younger than most Avengers. X-books have New Mutants still , but everyone else seemed to have been forgotten when Initiative ended.
    I think you will find many of them in the discount bins at the shops.

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    I wouldn't even count the Young Avengers among those. With the exception of Patriot (who there is seemingly some sort of legal red tape around right now), they tend to appear fairly often, Ms. America, Kate Bishop, Wiccan and Hulkling in particular.

  7. #52
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    We've already seen art from Marvel Comics #1000 with Eli in it! Looks like they finally sorted out that legal quagmire.
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  8. #53
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    She's not the least empathic, she's simply the least demonstrative. She feels emotions, and struggles to understand the basic contradictions of every day life. Like a good number of people with autism and other behavioral disorders.
    That’s possible too.

    But give her a little life experience out in the wild of society and I think Finesse as an adult will look a lot like a person who behaves with “a means to an end” attitude. I don’t think she’d bother with deciding if there’s a contradiction.

  9. #54
    Spectacular Member milton75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsan52 View Post
    I’m talking:

    The New Warriors
    Initiative recruits (both new and already existing characters)
    Prodigy and The Slingers
    Loners
    Young Avengers
    Avengers Academy
    Aegis
    Ultragirl
    Devlor
    Vibraxis
    Wild Streak
    Etc.

    By “middle generation” I mean those older than The Champions but younger than most Avengers. X-books have New Mutants still , but everyone else seemed to have been forgotten when Initiative ended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I'm wondering how soon there will be another "new wave" of teen heroes, with Kamala and Doreen being poised as the "older folks".. We'll see?
    Pretty much this.

    It's all very well that Moon Girl gets scholastic sales, and there's Ironheart, Nova (Sam), and so on, but back in the 80s and 90s we thought the newer wave of characters were popular enough to stay. The New Warriors seemed pretty popular and the likes of X-Force sold a ridiculous number of books. Then it tailed off. As these things do.
    The truth is that there's a pretty small core of characters that can really sell a book consistently on their own. In Marvel's case that's probably Cap, Wolverine, Spider-Man. Then there's titles like Hulk, Iron Man, Thor that have done it for a long time but probably slightly less consistently. Massively famous and much-loved characters like Silver Surfer have always struggled to maintain high sales.

    Group titles like X-books and Avengers are more stable as there's more room for writers to be flexible with the cast and keep it fresh (maybe a reason why Fantastic Four, with it's relatively stable cast, struggles compared to these other team books?). The other thing about team books is that they provide a safer platform for introducing a brand new or revitalised character. If a writed wants more Firestar in X-Men or wants to introduce a new character like Gambit, it's easier to do so and there's less pressure on that character to fly. Do the same in a new solo book and it's tough. If it doesn't sell very well the character is probably sidelined for several years.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if in 10 years time we have folk on here moaning about Xenoboy or whatever, and saying that he's been shoehorned in and hasn't earned his chops like establish character such as Ms Marvel.

  10. #55
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Status update for Finesse: she's back on the side of the angels. In Unstoppable Wasp #10, she joined GIRL (along with two other ex-AIM defectors), as she has both scientific and combat knowledge. The scientific knowledge comes in handy because she has the ability to remember anything she sees. And the combat knowledge is being used to train another GIRL member, Priya, who gained plant control powers recently and wants to become a superhero (possibly as a Champions reinforcement, as her striking up a friendship with Kamala three issues earlier was mentioned) but needs training.

    Unfortunately, since that was the last issue of Wasp (for now, anyway), she's probably back in limbo for a while.
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  11. #56
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    I wouldn't even count the Young Avengers among those. With the exception of Patriot (who there is seemingly some sort of legal red tape around right now), they tend to appear fairly often, Ms. America, Kate Bishop, Wiccan and Hulkling in particular.
    What is the legal snafu tying up Patriot? I don't understand it.

  12. #57
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Status update for Finesse: she's back on the side of the angels. In Unstoppable Wasp #10, she joined GIRL (along with two other ex-AIM defectors), as she has both scientific and combat knowledge. The scientific knowledge comes in handy because she has the ability to remember anything she sees. And the combat knowledge is being used to train another GIRL member, Priya, who gained plant control powers recently and wants to become a superhero (possibly as a Champions reinforcement, as her striking up a friendship with Kamala three issues earlier was mentioned) but needs training.

    Unfortunately, since that was the last issue of Wasp (for now, anyway), she's probably back in limbo for a while.
    Good to hear on Finesse’s part though refresh my memory, has she always been into science or is this new?

  13. #58
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    What is the legal snafu tying up Patriot? I don't understand it.
    It's mostly to do with him being from Isaiah Bradley's lineage, Isaiah being the original African-American Captain America from Truth: Red, White, and Black, a miniseries explaining that the Super-Soldier Serum used on Steve Rogers was initially tested on African-American men in an allegory for the Tuskegee syphilis experiments run on African-American men in real life around the same era. Somehow, there's some kind of legal issue with that entire family tree, which is also why Josiah X from The Crew (Isaiah's genetically engineered son) and Isaiah himself have not appeared in Marvel's comics for at least a decade now.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Status update for Finesse: she's back on the side of the angels. In Unstoppable Wasp #10, she joined GIRL (along with two other ex-AIM defectors), as she has both scientific and combat knowledge. The scientific knowledge comes in handy because she has the ability to remember anything she sees. And the combat knowledge is being used to train another GIRL member, Priya, who gained plant control powers recently and wants to become a superhero (possibly as a Champions reinforcement, as her striking up a friendship with Kamala three issues earlier was mentioned) but needs training.

    Unfortunately, since that was the last issue of Wasp (for now, anyway), she's probably back in limbo for a while.
    Given how poorly she was used, I'll take limbo for a bit.

  15. #60
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Good to hear on Finesse’s part though refresh my memory, has she always been into science or is this new?
    She graduated from MIT at age 14, so yeah, she does have a science background.
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