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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Me too. Especially since he drowned in air, as I understand it. Even though both is parents could breath air.
    That's not how he died. He was killed by suffocation.

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That's not how he died. He was killed by suffocation.
    Suffocation in air. At least, this is the panel I previously saw (haven't read full story) and it seems to indicate the child breathes only water.

    Aquababy1.jpg

    Of course, I have no idea if him being able to breathe air was ever shown, or just assumed, of even if was previously specifically stated he couldn't.


    I know Atlanteans are vulnerable if too long out of water in the era, but it should take an hour after the water is all gone, as I understand it.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 06-25-2019 at 06:03 AM.

  3. #33
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And yet that is exactly what they did.
    They never did. The New 52 happened.

    Mera became a non-character, went crazy and went missing. Her perspective never explored and her character more or less tossed aside. Arthur went through his whole 90s hook hand phase. Black Manta, what, became an actual manta ray?

    It was a point of no return for all of them, at least in the world of an ongoing superhero narrative. McLaughlin's short run (which I wish continued instead of PAD's) even has Arthur calling into question his "manhood" for not killing Black Manta, something he WOULD have done if not for being tied to an ongoing narrative where Manta can't just be killed off. Aquaman becomes a victim of his own storytelling trapping, which is not a good place for our wonderful seafaring pulp action hero.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-25-2019 at 06:21 AM.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  4. #34
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    Brian Cunningham. He seems to have an axe to grind with the Johns run (and actually went after people on twitter for criticizing his attempt to destroy the book with Cullen Bunn).
    Ah, that makes sense.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-25-2019 at 06:25 AM.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    They never did. The New 52 happened.

    Mera became a non-character, went crazy and went missing. Her perspective never explored and her character more or less tossed aside. Arthur went through his whole 90s hook hand phase. Black Manta, what, became an actual manta ray?

    It was a point of no return for all of them, at least in the world of an ongoing superhero narrative. McLaughlin's short run (which I wish continued instead of PAD's) even has Arthur calling into question his "manhood" for not killing Black Manta, something he WOULD have done if not for being tied to an ongoing narrative where Manta can't just be killed off. Aquaman becomes a victim of his own storytelling trapping, which is not a good place for our wonderful seafaring pulp action hero.
    You are really oversimplifying the 90s run. Yes it had it's dark moments but Arthur was not completely self serious and there were a number of light hearted moments. Johns also showed some exploration of Mera's perspective before the reboot happened.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    They never did. The New 52 happened.

    Mera became a non-character, went crazy and went missing. Her perspective never explored and her character more or less tossed aside. Arthur went through his whole 90s hook hand phase. Black Manta, what, became an actual manta ray?

    It was a point of no return for all of them, at least in the world of an ongoing superhero narrative. McLaughlin's short run (which I wish continued instead of PAD's) even has Arthur calling into question his "manhood" for not killing Black Manta, something he WOULD have done if not for being tied to an ongoing narrative where Manta can't just be killed off. Aquaman becomes a victim of his own storytelling trapping, which is not a good place for our wonderful seafaring pulp action hero.
    You are really oversimplifying the 90s run. Yes it had it's dark moments but Arthur was not completely self serious and there were a number of light hearted moments. Johns also showed some exploration of Mera's perspective before the reboot happened.

  7. #37
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You are really oversimplifying the 90s run. Yes it had it's dark moments but Arthur was not completely self serious and there were a number of light hearted moments. Johns also showed some exploration of Mera's perspective before the reboot happened.
    Johns did, totally, but he was already trying to work out now to fix it all at that point. He saw the potential in Mera as a character and really built her back up. She's so much fun in the Silver Age stuff, and she's fantastic in Johns run and Parker's and Abnett's afterwards (though Abnett's run meanders toward the end, the first half is so strong).
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-25-2019 at 06:33 AM.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Johns did, totally, but he was already trying to work out now to fix it all at that point. He saw the potential in Mera as a character and really built her back up. She's so much fun in the Silver Age stuff, and she's fantastic in Johns run and Parker's and Abnett's afterwards (though Abnett's run meanders toward the end, the first half is so strong).
    So clearly they weren't all past the point of no return.

    Hell, Bunn had Arthur raped in his run and the character is still going on.

  9. #39
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So clearly they weren't all past the point of no return.

    Hell, Bunn had Arthur raped in his run and the character is still going on.
    Yeah, after a hard reboot. Brightest Day was going to reboot things anyway, just on a smaller scale.

    Johns rebooted the characters. Mera had been pretty much off the board for a decade because of all that noise. Totally erased. Black Manta was gone. Aquaman dead. You're using the guy who got rid of all that grim junk, as an example that the characters were fine all along?

    Bunn's run has been pretty much just ignored.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-25-2019 at 07:04 AM.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Yeah, after a hard reboot. Brightest Day was going to reboot things anyway, just on a smaller scale.

    Johns rebooted the characters. Mera had been pretty much off the board for a decade because of all that noise. Totally erased. Black Manta was gone. Aquaman dead. You're using the guy who got rid of all that grim junk, as an example that the characters were fine all along?

    Bunn's run has been pretty much just ignored.
    I'm using the stories that were done before the reboot and didn't erase the histories. Even Johns didn't throw away the death of Arthur and Mera's child.

    Plus you're using the New 52 reboot which largely proved to be a failure. A reboot was not needed to make these characters usable again.

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    . . . The possibility that we'll actually get to see one super-kid grow up from a baby is a pretty cool idea that I would like to see. Hopefully, they'll actually go through with it . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I'd like to see the baby grow up at a regular pace instead of speed-aged. Particularly easy with Aquaman, since he's a king, and can have a nanny if we need both parents for an action issue . . .
    But it wouldn't make sense for DC to age the baby at a normally rate. It's totally unrealistic in continuous serial comic book stories.

    In a year worth of comic book issues, we see about how much time passing in-story? In twelve issues, we get maybe two-or-three arcs? That's rarely going to cover a full year in-story time. Also, if you are aging a character in the comic book stories at a "regular pace", that normally would mean the parents and those around them are aging at a "normal pace", and comic book companies are loathe to age too many characters too much before they reboot or de-age them again.
    (There's too much $'s invested in those properties to put the biggest sellers in a retirement home or a graveyard permanently and hope a legacy/replacement character will generate the same money for the company!)
    Last edited by MajorHoy; 06-25-2019 at 07:54 AM.

  12. #42
    Fantastic Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    But it wouldn't make sense for DC to age the baby at a normally rate. It's totally unrealistic in continuous serial comic book stories.
    By "regular page" I meant not speed-aged like Wally's kid. Or introduced as a 10 year old like Jon or Damian. But instead an infant at the beginning, and then aging at the same rate as everyone else in the universe instead of jumping from infant to sidekick-age for some reason. I know the character wouldn't then be really used for themselves (rather than an emotional connection for the parents) until they were old enough to speak and exhibit personality. But that's okay with me. I just want characters to actually be able to raise their children. I think only Roy and Donna really got the chance to have children not jump ages (and even that's iffy), and then they got killed off. Robert was a weirder one - younger after death than before.

    I admit, we'd probably never make it to the kid's 10th birthday due to reboots, but I'd still rather than than speed-aging.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I don't get how this run isn't seen as an organic growth of Abnett's... Mera is the Queen of Atlantis, Arthur had to be mostly hidden from the public there who had turned on him and is now suspected dead, with the Widowhood or whatever its name (the old sorceress ladies) clearly pushing for "one of their own" in the throne (Mera even if she isn't truly a part of their circle) and trying to get rid of the old dynasty, since Mera stated that she had to marry and that it was implied that doing that with Arthur could cause troubles.

    KSD clearly looked at that and decided to explore all of it at her pace, in her own way, and I'm glad she did. Those ancient Sea Gods, Caille, they'll be excellent new supporting characters for Aquaman. He does sorely needs them, since he basically just has Mera -whose prominence is growing and could become her own character, with an ongoing and all, someday soon, I suspect- and far distant behind her Tula, Vulko and Murk (if he survived, somehow I remember him dying). And that's it.

    KSD will introduce Arthur and Jackson (Aqualad II) and as hyped as i am about that, I'm glad she adds to Arthur's corner of the DCU. She only need to bring back the Others and play with them to have a wide range of characters offering an equally wide range of stories for Aquaman to explore, without needing to reinvent the wheel. From mythological adventures with the sea gods to personal drama with Mera and Aqualad, black ops missions with the Others and all the political antics of Atlantis !
    Donít forget the recent return of Dolphin to the world of Aquaman too.

  14. #44
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm using the stories that were done before the reboot and didn't erase the histories. Even Johns didn't throw away the death of Arthur and Mera's child.

    Plus you're using the New 52 reboot which largely proved to be a failure. A reboot was not needed to make these characters usable again.
    The stories before the reboot were also a reboot. Brightest Day was intended to reset characters like Aquaman and Mera, Hawkman, etc. Characters that had been really struggling.

    They just decided to do a larger reboot for all characters (cept Batman), half way through that. So, no Aquaman and his world were pretty much in need of major resuscitation. Mera wasn't even around. Black Manta, too.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  15. #45
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    Before Johns, Arthur was a supporting character in his own book and unceremoniously killed off before Blackest Night resurrected him. Mera/Arthur was basically dead and buried. Most of the stuff like setting up Manta's hatred for him and having Mera/Arthur was already there in Brightest Day. The only thing they really changed was Ocean Master, but even then in Brightest Day there were hints that he was probably the new leader of Atlantis after Garth had died.

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