Is DC in trouble

[Vampire Savior]

You want KIDS-you have to cater to them and that means making some adults MAD.

There is some truth in that. I don't know if it applies to everything (I don't think so), but it applies to DC. When I was younger, I loved the John Stewart Green Lantern, but if you interacted with Green Lantern fans, there would frequently be those who would tell you that John is only there because of affirmative action, the real Green Lantern was someone else, and so on and so forth. Well, that their type of thinking won out over my preferences and DC essentially was telling me that I was the one who was wrong. That more or less blew me out from being a DC Comics fan, and now I only really keep up with their goings on for my own educational purposes rather than a sense of love or loyalty for the company or the characters.

So, whether DC was right or wrong, I'm living proof of DC losing a young fan because the company tried to push something on me I hated while more or less crapping all over the character I actually liked. That said, I'm sure there are some young people who became fans because of the decisions DC has made, so again, right and wrong are points of view, but it was clear that DC wasn't going after someone like me, who was a fan from watching popular cartoon shows. Now, some will say that people like me don't exist and don't boost sales and that's the end of the discussions. Ultimately, I don't think that's true, otherwise I wouldn't encounter so many manga readers who began as anime watchers. I think if that is happening, there is a problem somewhere with DC or American comics that is causing it, not because it's an absolute truth in and of itself.

[Konja7]

Maybe actual character and story progression that stays throughout the series? Characters age up, but others aren't tossed under the bus?

Uh. No.

Characters age up happened in just some mangas (in fact, a minority). Most mangas have characters mantaining around the same age for all the story.

However, development of characters can happen even mantaining the same age.

Of course, the difference is that mangas will end at some point (even pretty long stories like One Piece or Case Closed will end).

[iron chimp]

Like the OP I was somewhat concerned about DC - news about lines being cut etc but them they come out with Hill House imprint and what seems to be new books coming out of bendis's event - it looks more like a tidy up and rejigging of things now rather than anything serious.

And realistically USA comics are doing very well at the minute - physical monthly sales numbers are comparable to late 90s which is impressive given 2019 has to cope with digital sales, everything now traded, and massive piracy. So it's in robust health and one of print media biggest success stories in digital age.

Everyone would like more readers as it equals more montly books and more choice but we now have a healthy OGN market able to support one strand of content once seen in monthlys.

[TheFalcon72]

The entire American comics industry is constantly teetering, because it's a very niche market. One that resists expansion regardless of whether that's healthy for it or not.



I mean, only in comics does the audience have this idea that they should be reading the publisher's entire output. Yes, nobody could reasonably pick up every Marvel book each month. I don't see what's wrong with that.

A few months ago I was at a club enjoying a lunch with my wife. The club had a very small comic and cosplay convention. Being a comics reader for a couple of decades I decided to have a look at the convention. (Yes I would live my wife to dress as Wonder Woman, but it's not going to happen).

I was surprised by the number of young people in cosplay costumes. Some were pretty fantastic from a great captain marvel, to a very impressive tony stark with just one arm having the ironman costume. Other notable costumes were the characters from the animated spider-man movie.

I think DC's marketing people need to develop a strategy to engage with other forms of pop culture fandom. I really line the comic book industry. A healthy market is just important got DC but it's also important for the smaller publishers such as Image, Valiant, Boom Studios etc.

[MRP]

Like the OP I was somewhat concerned about DC - news about lines being cut etc but them they come out with Hill House imprint and what seems to be new books coming out of bendis's event - it looks more like a tidy up and rejigging of things now rather than anything serious.

And realistically USA comics are doing very well at the minute - physical monthly sales numbers are comparable to late 90s which is impressive given 2019 has to cope with digital sales, everything now traded, and massive piracy. So it's in robust health and one of print media biggest success stories in digital age.

Everyone would like more readers as it equals more montly books and more choice but we now have a healthy OGN market able to support one strand of content once seen in monthlys.

They are comparable to the late 90s only in dollars, not units. And considering comics msrp is now 3-4 times what it was inthe late 90s, to get comparable dollars you are moving much fewer units. Comparing sales in dollars and saying its comparable while prices have risen is pure spin to hide the fact much fewer units are being sold in the industry. Add in all the high ticket items like Absolutes, omnibuses etc. that really didn't exist int he late 90s and whose sales bump up the dollars sum, and you start to see how much the claims of things are good because dollars sold are the same is a hollow claim.

If prices are 3x higher and units sold were the same, revenue in dollars should be 3 times what it was then. It's not.

-M

[iron chimp]

They are comparable to the late 90s only in dollars, not units. And considering comics msrp is now 3-4 times what it was inthe late 90s, to get comparable dollars you are moving much fewer units. Comparing sales in dollars and saying its comparable while prices have risen is pure spin to hide the fact much fewer units are being sold in the industry. Add in all the high ticket items like Absolutes, omnibuses etc. that really didn't exist int he late 90s and whose sales bump up the dollars sum, and you start to see how much the claims of things are good because dollars sold are the same is a hollow claim.

If prices are 3x higher and units sold were the same, revenue in dollars should be 3 times what it was then. It's not.

-M

Unit sales are very comparable to late 90s according to comicchron and books are not 3x or x4 more expensive than late 90s. No one was paying $1 or $1.25 in comic shop in late 90s.

[Noodle]

Unit sales are very comparable to late 90s according to comicchron and books are not 3x or x4 more expensive than late 90s. No one was paying $1 or $1.25 in comic shop in late 90s.

The average monthly price of a comic in 1999 was $1.99. So not 3x the price but double it as the average now is $3.99.

[iron chimp]

The average monthly price of a comic in 1999 was $1.99. So not 3x the price but double it as the average now is $3.99.

The cheapest was $2
An image book was typically $2.50 which is $4 in today's money after 20 years of inflation.

[MRP]

The cheapest was $2
An image book was typically $2.50 which is $4 in today's money after 20 years of inflation.

And are they adjusting sales comparisons for inflation? I doubt it. If your dollar sales today equal what they were in the late 90s, your making less now. If you want to actually compare apples to apples, comparison should be in units, or units per title published to get a better sense of how well the market is doing comparatively. How many people would call making the same amount at their job 20 years later being successful?

-M

[Noodle]

The cheapest was $2
An image book was typically $2.50 which is $4 in today's money after 20 years of inflation.

No, the average was. Not all, but the average. Image wasn't the industry leader then. DC and Marvel were, and the majority of their books at that time were $1.99. More comics published + normal price of a monthly book = average.

[superduperman]

The cheapest was $2
An image book was typically $2.50 which is $4 in today's money after 20 years of inflation.

Looking at a DC book from 1999 right now and the cover price is $1.99. So a DC book is at least twice what it was 20 years ago. Comics companies are coming to a point where the cost of printing is outweighing the profit to be made from still using print. How many people just trade wait something they want?

[iron chimp]

No, the average was. Not all, but the average. Image wasn't the industry leader then. DC and Marvel were, and the majority of their books at that time were $1.99. More comics published + normal price of a monthly book = average.

In 1998 statistically the average price of a book was $2.50
$1.99 was the cheapest price DC and marvel published at but they also had books at higher price points Eg Detective was $2 but green arrow and hitman were $2.50. And a vertigo book and green arrow are $4 20 years later which mirrors inflation.

[Tzigone]

And a vertigo book and green arrow are $4 20 years later which mirrors inflation.

Doesn't quite mirror inflation on the calculators I used (that would have $3.84 for $2.50), but I guess it's not too far off.

[iron chimp]

And are they adjusting sales comparisons for inflation? I doubt it. If your dollar sales today equal what they were in the late 90s, your making less now. If you want to actually compare apples to apples, comparison should be in units, or units per title published to get a better sense of how well the market is doing comparatively. How many people would call making the same amount at their job 20 years later being successful?

-M

I use comicchron data. Go check it is all I can suggest.