Is DC in trouble

[MRP]

This isn't the 1990s anymore. Floppies are up to $4.00-$5.00 a pop. What is the average age of a comic book reader these days? mid-30s to mid-40s? Let's be honest, the kids aren't really into them these days. Maybe some of these new initiatives will change that. But right now, the same people who were reading them 20-30 years ago are still reading them today. I keep saying this because I think it's true. I believe floppies will be phased out within the next decade. I also kind of think that, if things continue on the path that they're on, upper management at either Warners or AT&T will step in and take over. How much creative control DC will have after that will probably diminish. I don't keep saying this because I necessarily want it to happen. But because I really do think this will happen unless things turn around. This may mean firing people like Didio and Lee. Or at least reassigning them. Didio actually has a lot of great ideas for reaching out to new readers. He should be put in charge of that. Lee needs to get back to the drawing board.

Actually comics are among the best sellers to young readers in the book trade. There just not periodical floppies sold in direct market comic shops featuring 50-80 year old characters. The problem isn't kids don't read comics, kids are reading a lot of comics in book format sold in mass market stores or at Scholastic fairs, the problem is that periodical comics featuring small chunks of serialized stories sold only in niche specialty shops to customers who preorder them 2-3 month in advance and sell at $3-$4 for 20 pages of content is not an attractive product to mass market customers, and the non-returnable model of the direct market is not conducive to stores stocking more copies than are pre-ordered for their to be copies for any potential new customer to discover more than a day after the book is released.

-M

[Vampire Savior]

My job allows me to interact with a good amount of kids, and I purposefully talk to them about entertainment, because I like keeping a finger on the pulse of what connects with them and what doesn't, because it's my goal to eventually sell action figures. Mort Weisinger actually went out and talked to kids about what they liked and wanted to see, so I just do something similar. From what I've discovered, kids WILL and do read comics, but they're almost always manga. Boys and girls alike. I've not seen a girl who will touch an American comic or even cares about the characters, but I've encountered a good amount that love manga. DC just cannot seem to entice that demographic. The (rare) females I've encountered who do have an interest in US comics are always older. Like, not kids but adults. The boys won't read the comics (but they will read manga), but they at least like characters like Iron Man and so forth.

I had a conversation with a kid today that went something like that.

Me: Has anything exciting happened lately?

Boy: I went to my cousins house.

Me: What were they doing?

Boy: Watching TV.

Me: Were they watching cartoons?

Boy: Yeah. They were watching Cartoon Network.

Me: Was Teen Titans on?

Boy: No, they don't like Teen Titans.

Me: Why?

Boy: They prefer anime.

Me: Do you like Teen Titans?

Boy: No, I prefer anime.

----

That is really how the conversation went, and such things aren't uncommon, I've found.

That said, I did happen to have some comic art I was working on and a kid saw it and they were extremely stimulated, so I don't know...
And sometimes I do art at my local library and kids gather around to watch and look at it. I'm not DC Comics, but I think it shows there is at least some interest there in this type of stuff.

It was this page and it just happened today:

[MRP]

My job allows me to interact with a good amount of kids, and I purposefully talk to them about entertainment, because I like keeping a finger on the pulse of what connects with them and what doesn't. From what I've discovered, kids WILL and do read comics, but they're almost always manga. Boys and girls alike. I've not seen a girl who will touch an American comic or even cares about the characters, but I've encountered a good amount that love manga...

If you look at Brian Hibbs analysis of the Bookscan numbers for sales of comics in the book trade for 2018, 19 of the top 20 sellers were American comics aimed at younger readers...

DOG MAN AND CAT KID PILKEY, DAV
DOG MAN: LORD OF THE FLEAS PILKEY, D
DOG MAN PILKEY, D
DOG MAN UNLEASHED PILKEY, D
DOG MAN: A TALE OF TWO KITTIES PILKEY, D
DOG MAN: BRAWL OF THE WILD PILKEY, D
DRAMA TELGEMEIER, RAINA
SMILE TELGEMEIER, R
SISTERS TELGEMEIER, R
THE BABY-SITTERS CLUB: DAWN AND THE IMPOSSIBLE THREE MARTIN, ANN M.
GHOSTS TELGEMEIER, R
KRISTY’S BIG DAY MARTIN, A
KRISTY’S GREAT IDEA: FULL-COLOR EDITION (THE BABY-SITTERS CLUB GRAPHIX #1) MARTIN, A
THE ADVENTURE ZONE: HERE THERE BE GERBLINS MCELROY, CLINT
POPULARMMOS PRESENTS: A HOLE NEW WORLD POPULARMMOS
POSITIVELY IZZY LIBENSON, TERRI
SUPERNOVA KIBUISHI, KAZU
BIG NATE: SILENT BUT DEADLY PEIRCE, LINCOLN
PHOEBE AND HER UNICORN (PHOEBE AND HER UNICORN SERIES BOOK 1) SIMPSON, DANA
THE DRAGONET PROPHECY SUTHERLAND, TUI T.

sales of comics in the book trade have nearly doubled in the last 5-7 years, and it is one of the largest growth categories in book sales. But what do you not see there-books by DC or Marvel, super-heroes or stuff that is a collection of material previously released as periodicals for the direct market.

You can get a quick sense of what comics are selling in the book trade from this pie chart...



nearly 1/3 of the units moved were by Scholastic, and the type of stuff Scholastic is succeeding with?

It is now the 4th year in the row that our #1 Western publisher in the Top 750 is Scholastic. This is no longer an amusing anomaly: this is the new reality. Look at the overall market, and pause and wonder at that dominating 33% market share of pieces sold. Consider for a moment that Scholastic has done this with only two hundred and twenty four books, total! Consider for a second moment that Scholastic only started “doing” comics in 2005.

Just limiting ourselves to the Top 750, Scholastic surges forward in sales this year by selling an absolutely staggering 4.5 million copies, from 58 placing books This is an unbelievable 67% growth from last year (2.7 million copies), which was up 42% from 2016 (1.9 million). In calculated retail dollars, we’re looking at almost $53 million dollars in sales.

This is even more incredible when you start to think that these are sales to book stores (and Amazon) only – none of these numbers (as far as I know) include the direct-to-families sales that happen via the incredibly successful Scholastic Book Fairs. Nor does this count any sales that are being done to elementary and middle school libraries, numbers that likely exceed retail sales. Possibly by a multiple.

Also consider that the next largest publisher sold a combined 661k copies, less than a sixth of their volume.

Scholastic has several imprints...

Arthur A. Levine places 1 book into the Top 750 just as they have for years, and it’s the same book: just a bit over 9k copies of “The Arrival” by Shaun Tan.

Blue Sky is also just 1 book in the Top 750 – Dav Pilkey’s “Ook & Gluk, Kung-Fu Cavemen” shifting 27k copies, much of that on the sidestream of the success “Dog Man”.

The Graphix imprint has 43 placing titles, for just nearly 4.3m in sales, and is where the big hits live: the aforementioned “Dog Man” and all of Raina Telgemeier’s books (“Sisters”, “Smile”, “Drama”, and the first four “Baby Sitter’s Club” adaptations), all of which are discussed up top. “Dog Man” alone shifts nearly 2.7 million books, to recap. Telgemeier sells “only” 916k.

The post-Telgemeier “Baby Sitter’s Club” steamrolls without her – the 2 Gale Galligan-adapted books sell more than 220k copies.

Graphix also does fantastic with Kazu Kibuishi’s “Amulet” – volume 8, “Supernova” sells nearly 88k copies. All 8 volumes of the series chart, as well as various permutations of box sets – which, can I tell you, are giant dollar generators for Scholastic: I calculate the box set of #1-7 alone generated more potential retail dollars than the release of v8. Altogether, nearly 302k copies of Amulet books are sold within the Top 750.

The 1st book of the adaptation of “Wings of Fire”, “The Dragonet Prophecy” flies in with almost 81k sold

They don’t quite make Scholastic’s Top 20, but Jennifer Holm’s “Sunny” books do excellent as well: selling a combined 66k copies between the 2 books. There’s also a notable launch of Jarrett Krosoczka’s “Hey Kiddo” at just over 21k, as well as Kristen Gudsnuk’s “Making Friends” at almost 17k

Jeff Smith’s “Bone”, which largely launched Graphix, places 4 of the 9 volumes into the Top 750 this year. V1, “Out From Boneville”, sells almost 13k copies this year.

Scholastic also publishes as “Scholastic”, straight up, and they place 13 more titles that way. The big hit is more Dav Pilkey, as “The Adventures of Super Diaper Baby” roars back with some 41k copies sold, while Jeffrey Brown’s “Jedi Academy” books continue to score: the first volume of that perennial series sold about 22k copies this year

in juxtaposition, here's the DC analysis:

2018 is pretty ugly in the book stores for DC – they haven’t had this tragic of a performance since 2005...

Now, there’s no doubt that the rebranding from “New 52” to “Rebirth” simply did not work in the mid-term – it does not appear that the “civilian” audience understood why continuity was being “reset” again so quickly. And while the “Rebirth” GN numbers were OK to start, they very very quickly bombed out. Here’s an example: the first “Rebirth” “Harley Quinn” launched at 13k in 2017. In 2018, it sold just 1818 copies. Kind of shockingly, v1 of the “New 52” “Harley” outsold it at 1894 copies. You can see this over and over again down the line: “Rebirth” “Batman” v1 sold 24k in 2017, and just over 5600 copies in 2018. “Nightwing” v1 sold 12k in 2017, down to 3k in 2018. In fact, not a single “Rebirth” branded book passes 10k in 2018, and it completely slaughtered the sales of the “New 52” editions as well.

I sort of get all of that, and how the mechanics of that can work… but what I don’t really grasp is why the strong backlist, the stuff that has sold month-in, month-out for (in many cases now, decades), suddenly fell off the cliff...

To help with your trivia contests sometime in the future, “What is the first ‘Black Label’ book?” Well, it is “Batman: White Knight”. It sells about 18k copies in the bookstores. My larger question is “what is ‘Black Label’ actually going to be?” is still unanswered, though. I think DC has sent extremely mixed messages. This is DC’s #3 best-selling book over all, by the way.

There’s also a single DC Zoom book in the Top 750 this year: “DC Super Hero Girls: Date With Disaster” – it sells just over 8k copies. I can’t explain what makes this one, which is actually v5, sell so much better than the other volumes – the next one listed is out of the top 750, and sells under half at around 3600 copies – the same thing is true in my comic shop, this is the one that sells best. So odd.

There are six books branded as Vertigo. “Sandman” v1 does the best with 11k sold (it is DC’s #7 best-selling book), and “Preacher” v1 does next best at about 5600 copies, way down from 11k the previous year.

The remaining 39 books are branded as DC Comics. The best-selling of these is “Watchmen” for 27k, but that’s down from 31k last year. Why?

#2 is the paperback of “Dark Nights: Metal” just over 19k (while companion book “Dark Knights Rising” [#6] brings in almost 12k, and “Dark Days: The Road to Metal” [#9] does about 9500 copies)

At #4 for DC is “Batman: The Killing Joke”, which moves almost 17k copies. That sounds good… but it sold 36k the year before, and 131k the year before that. Again: why the plunge?

#5 is “V For Vendetta” at 14k (18k the year before)

#8 is “Batman: Year One” at just under 10k – it’s dropped from about 11k; #10 is v4 of the “Rebirth” “Batman” (“The War of Jokes & Riddles”), and fallen out of the Top 10 at #11 is Frank Miller’s “Batman: The Dark Knight Returns” with under 9k sold – dropped from over 11k.

you can see his complete analysis of the report here: https://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-a...scan-for-2018/


The bottom line is kids are buying and reading a lot of stories in comic book form, they're just not buying serialized super-hero fiction in periodical format sold on the direct market. And the books the DC does sell to the mass audience are usually self-contained stories not part of the DCU continuity as a whole (Batman White Knight, Watchmen, Batman Year One, V for Vendetta).

Whether that means DC is in trouble or not, I don't know, but what it says is that what sells to the niche comic shop market is not an attractive product for the mass market, and the mass market has massive growth in comic sales while direct market sales are slumping. And that while super-hero stories are a billion dollar business in the mass market in other media, serialized periodical super-hero stories is not a product that the mass market wants.

Comics are still a thriving business, especially where young readers are concerned, but comics the way traditional super-hero fans prefer them are not part of that rosy picture.

-M

[Flash Gordon]

DC has the right idea with their YA graphic novels.

There's Black Label stuff for those who wanna see Batman naked, and the main line comics geared towards everyone in between.

Perfect.

[Lee Stone]

I agree.
DC has been largely targeting a shrinking audience, while they've been ignoring a larger audience that's growing.

And I believe 'kids aren't interested in comics' is a myth circulated by 30+ year old superhero comics fans afraid of what will happen if younger readers come into their 'yard'.
They've fought so hard for comics to 'grow up' with them that any sign of appealing to younger readers is a sign comics are 'regressing'.
On the bright side, they have nothing to fear, because kids aren't interested in those types of comics.

But DC has something to fear... because if kids aren't interested in those types of comics, they won't have a future once those 30+ year olds start falling off. Unless they start doing something now.

[iron chimp]

Price wasn't a major factor because a indie book now costs the same as in the 80s with inflation. All marvel and DC did was start to align their prices with comico Pacific the turtles etc.

The comic shop model isn't an issue because Marvel were probably selling at least 10x the number of comics in 10x fewer outlets at twice the price they could on newsstand.

For me it was Marvel especially steanrollering into the comic shop pushing indie titles off the shelves and filling shelves with swathes of complete rubbish. Then any shelf space left for books and publishers who had been in shops since the 80s was now taken by Image's rubbish.

Couple that to bribing the industry media to hype these books as the future of comics and greed of the readers and comic shops turned to total crap nearly overnight.

The record industry Payola scandal led to a Congress hearing. The comic book payola racket... nothing.

Readers and big business greed.

[kingaliencracker]

This isn't the 1990s anymore. Floppies are up to $4.00-$5.00 a pop. What is the average age of a comic book reader these days? mid-30s to mid-40s? Let's be honest, the kids aren't really into them these days. Maybe some of these new initiatives will change that. But right now, the same people who were reading them 20-30 years ago are still reading them today. I keep saying this because I think it's true. I believe floppies will be phased out within the next decade. I also kind of think that, if things continue on the path that they're on, upper management at either Warners or AT&T will step in and take over. How much creative control DC will have after that will probably diminish. I don't keep saying this because I necessarily want it to happen. But because I really do think this will happen unless things turn around. This may mean firing people like Didio and Lee. Or at least reassigning them. Didio actually has a lot of great ideas for reaching out to new readers. He should be put in charge of that. Lee needs to get back to the drawing board.

I have been stating for several years that it's only a matter of time before everything becomes digital (sans independent publishers or special events). Fans have argued with me that floppy sales are significantly higher than digital sales but that's only because floppies are still offered to old fogies like us. If you told the current fan base that the only way they'd be able to purchase comic books is digitally, I think we would transfer over. We wouldn't have a choice if we wanted to still read comic books. That doesn't solve the problem of increasing readership but it does solve costs associated with publishing and distributing comic books.

I've heard accessibility is an issue but DC has tried to branch out with the Walmart exclusives but that certainly didn't work and now those will be offered via the direct market. I really don't know what the answer is. As I stated before, DC will still be around in some capacity, just for their IPs alone as well as to maintain trademarks/licensing rights. I just predict that sooner than later, how the current fan base obtains and reads comic books will be significantly altered.

[cranger]

I have been stating for several years that it's only a matter of time before everything becomes digital (sans independent publishers or special events). Fans have argued with me that floppy sales are significantly higher than digital sales but that's only because floppies are still offered to old fogies like us. If you told the current fan base that the only way they'd be able to purchase comic books is digitally, I think we would transfer over.

Some might, others would just quit, or start collecting back issues until floppies become popular again (See Vinyl Records.) As for this digital future (Comixology has been selling digital for 10 years now?), we can look to eBooks for some examples of how that might go. Recent years have seen eBook sales decline while physical books rise. One of the big factors in the growth of physical books? Kids. They love physical books.

[MajorHoy]

I agree.
DC has been largely targeting a shrinking audience, while they've been ignoring a larger audience that's growing.

I don't think it's so much that DC is "ignoring a larger audience" as it is that they have haven't found the right way to tap in to them with what DC knows how to do. They probably want to find connecting gateways that would lead to some regular comic book purchases, too.

[iron chimp]

Some might, others would just quit, or start collecting back issues until floppies become popular again (See Vinyl Records.) As for this digital future (Comixology has been selling digital for 10 years now?), we can look to eBooks for some examples of how that might go. Recent years have seen eBook sales decline while physical books rise. One of the big factors in the growth of physical books? Kids. They love physical books.

I ve only ever bought records, floppies and trades and the downside is accumulation of stuff. However, when I helped a more tech embracing friend move house we set up his living room and it was basically bare. When I asked where all his stuff was he ruefully acknowledged it was all on a cloud and that he owned next to nothing that could be considered interior decoration or physical culture to furnish his home.

As much as companies might want to sell us mp3s, cbr files, pdfs etc as consumers we need physical objects as furnishing even if one sets aside any other factors

[kingaliencracker]

I ve only ever bought records, floppies and trades and the downside is accumulation of stuff. However, when I helped a more tech embracing friend move house we set up his living room and it was basically bare. When I asked where all his stuff was he ruefully acknowledged it was all on a cloud and that he owned next to nothing that could be considered interior decoration or physical culture to furnish his home.

As much as companies might want to sell us mp3s, cbr files, pdfs etc as consumers we need physical objects as furnishing even if one sets aside any other factors

I don't think that's true, especially if the information can be obtained electronically or digitally, as comic books can. We feel we need the physical copy because right now it's still being offered to us that way. If the industry decides to go 100% digital (as I believe they will at some point in the near future), then fans will have to choose whether they want to continue reading current stories on their phones or tablets, or as someone else suggested start collecting back issues.

As far as the vinyl argument...I would say the biggest difference is that music is much more universal (and therefore more purchased) than comic books, so it explains why there would be a market for vinyl records. Even still, the overwhelming majority of people who purchase or obtain music still do so on their phones.

[iron chimp]

I don't think that's true, especially if the information can be obtained electronically or digitally, as comic books can. We feel we need the physical copy because right now it's still being offered to us that way. If the industry decides to go 100% digital (as I believe they will at some point in the near future), then fans will have to choose whether they want to continue reading current stories on their phones or tablets, or as someone else suggested start collecting back issues.

As far as the vinyl argument...I would say the biggest difference is that music is much more universal (and therefore more purchased) than comic books, so it explains why there would be a market for vinyl records. Even still, the overwhelming majority of people who purchase or obtain music still do so on their phones.

Then your house will have no bookshelves or record / CD racks and so your living space will be bare / very minimalist.

Having seen friends experience he restarted buying physical cultural items rather than buying on the cloud simply as furnishing. A house without bookcases for many people is a very empty space.

[HandofPrometheus]

My job allows me to interact with a good amount of kids, and I purposefully talk to them about entertainment, because I like keeping a finger on the pulse of what connects with them and what doesn't, because it's my goal to eventually sell action figures. Mort Weisinger actually went out and talked to kids about what they liked and wanted to see, so I just do something similar. From what I've discovered, kids WILL and do read comics, but they're almost always manga. Boys and girls alike. I've not seen a girl who will touch an American comic or even cares about the characters, but I've encountered a good amount that love manga. DC just cannot seem to entice that demographic. The (rare) females I've encountered who do have an interest in US comics are always older. Like, not kids but adults. The boys won't read the comics (but they will read manga), but they at least like characters like Iron Man and so forth.

I had a conversation with a kid today that went something like that.

Me: Has anything exciting happened lately?

Boy: I went to my cousins house.

Me: What were they doing?

Boy: Watching TV.

Me: Were they watching cartoons?

Boy: Yeah. They were watching Cartoon Network.

Me: Was Teen Titans on?

Boy: No, they don't like Teen Titans.

Me: Why?

Boy: They prefer anime.

Me: Do you like Teen Titans?

Boy: No, I prefer anime.

----

That is really how the conversation went, and such things aren't uncommon, I've found.

That said, I did happen to have some comic art I was working on and a kid saw it and they were extremely stimulated, so I don't know...
And sometimes I do art at my local library and kids gather around to watch and look at it. I'm not DC Comics, but I think it shows there is at least some interest there in this type of stuff.

It was this page and it just happened today:

That looks good man!

I worked at a daycare couple years back and one kid knew the JL members on my shirt so that was something. But from what I see and hear, more kids seem gravitated towards anime/manga than comics. And since Anime is becoming more mainstream manga benefits from it.

[HandofPrometheus]

I don't think DC is in danger. I don't think we can really tell but I think they're fine.

[Buried Alien]

When I first fell in love with comics as a kid back in the late 1970s, one of the reasons (other than the comics' innate quality) was relatively easy attainability (my dad owned a small local grocery store those days and the inventory included periodicals) and lack of alternatives (think back to what kids had as options in the late 1970s).

But today's kids: so, so many other options.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)