Should the yellow-oval uniform remain a part of Batman's in-story history?

[Jim Kelly]

I actually don't like the way the oval-less bat is drawn now, where it's such a slick design. I'd rather think that Alfred just orders in a bunch of grey sweatshirts in bulk and then uses a Sharpie to scrawl a black bat on each of them by hand.

Call me quirky, but I liked how in the first twenty-five years of Batman, the bat was done in a slap-dash manner. Since it was the job of the inker (not the penciller) to put that on Batman's chest--while they each had their own version (which is how you can identify different Batman inkers)--they weren't consistent from panel to panel and it wasn't a slick looking design.

Even when the oval was put around the bat--it wasn't always consistent. Although Joe Geilla was the main inker, the emblem was different if it was for Sheldon Moldoff or Carmine Infantino (and still different when Sheldon Moldoff was doing the comic strip on his own). It only seemed to become a formal design around 1968.

And in 1989, the trademark oval bat was everywhere for months and was used as the image to advertise the movie. Yet when Michael Keaton appeared as Batman in the movie, he had a different design. How'd that happen? How is it they pushed the symbol to such a degree, that we were all wearing it on our T-shirts, but they somehow didn't use that one when they made the movie?

[phantom1592]

The Oval was around from 1964-2000, that's only 36 years. It returned in Morrison's run, but was concurrent with the black bat symbol.

That leaves 44 years of Batman's 80 with the black bat.

Symbol aside, the overall costume was pretty much the same from the start until the early to mid-00's.

Which was kind of my point. He's gone through a LOT of costumes... but THIS one was the longest running. with the oval or without... When the question of 'what is Classic Batman... THIS is my answer. There are always a few artist tweaks and interpretations... but it was the same costume he wore for 36 years straight... Hush costume looks like it gets second place with around 8 years?? Then a veritable parade of with trunks, without trunks, all black, pinstripes, and whatever else they thought might stick.

But for me, it'll always be the 60-2000 costume

[Stick Figure]

Yikes!! Looking at the older images, I can’t believe Batman was once drawn with such a bright color of blue! Forget the yellow, that color blue is ridiculous!!

I don’t have a problem with the oval being part of history but I definitely prefer the suit without it. I don’t get why the belt isn’t just black. Why have any yellow in the costume? I get the color may break things up but it doesn’t make sense. All black with maybe an outline around the bat. Less old school comic booky.

[phantom1592]

Yikes!! Looking at the older images, I can’t believe Batman was once drawn with such a bright color of blue! Forget the yellow, that color blue is ridiculous!!

I don’t have a problem with the oval being part of history but I definitely prefer the suit without it. I don’t get why the belt isn’t just black. Why have any yellow in the costume? I get the color may break things up but it doesn’t make sense. All black with maybe an outline around the bat. Less old school comic booky.

One of my biggest problems with the Nolan suit was he has a black bat on a black costume.... and you really can't see it at all. There's no point to having something there if nobody can see anyway. Especially in brutal violent encounter. My theory is this... Batman is NOT about stealth like a ninja... He WANTS to be seen. You don't dress up like a bat to terrify the superstitious and then strike from the shadows with no witnesses.... If that was the goal then he may as well dress like an all black ninja and just leave a pile of unconscious bodies...

The yellow oval is the last thing these criminals are going to see before a whole world of pain descends on them and it will haunt their dreams.... and every night they look up and see it in the sky.

[Jim Kelly]

A few things to note about how Batman was coloured back in the day. For one thing, if you're looking at the second and third images from Boyblue's DC Universe above, you're seeing that on a screen with direct light not reflected light as with the old newprints comics, that were printed with a letterpress (not an offset press like the physical comics of today).

You have to look at the economic considerations. Comics made so much money in the past because the publisher paid low wages, used cheap paper and printing, and had large print runs so they could be sold to kids for ten cents (which was actually a substantial price--the same as a movie ticket--but you got more content). Since the artists were paid poorly and had to rush to get their comics in on deadline, there wasn't time to do detailed inking.




The 1939 Batman comics, inked by the likes of Sheldon Moldoff and George Roussos, do have more black ink on the cowl, cape, trunks and boots--but sit down at a table and draw an image of Batman and then try to fill in all that black by hand--it's different from if you can just use your computer to automatically fill that space. The colouring itself was done by production artists making colour guides (and paid even less than the inkers) and then by women at the printing press following those colour guides and not actually putting colour on the plates but a special chemical for each plate in the print run (and they got paid even less).

The trend toward using blue instead of black on costumes was universal. Look at Blackhawk, Black Condor, the Spirit, Black Cat--all of these characters go from a heavy use of black ink shading, to more blue highlights.



For the grey in Batman's costume actual grey scale was sometimes used on the covers, but to cut costs they used purple to colour the costume on the inside pages. It took two different plates to create the purple shade--the magenta plate and the blue plate. It they wanted to create grey using a combination of magenta, blue and yellow, that required three different plates. So they were cutting costs by using just two plates. Besides which, they knew that the cheap paper would age, and it would turn yellow on its own--so eventually that purple would look greyer. They didn't switch to a grey looking colour on the inside pages until the early 1970s.

It seems to me that kids were more sophisticated in how they read the figurative language of comics--maybe because they consumed so many plus the Sunday funnies that they understood this language and they didn't apply literal reality to the comics. Or maybe they started so early with comics that they understood them before they were pressured by teachers into seeing "realistic" colours. I know as a kid, before I was told it was wrong, I would gleefully colour pictures any colour I wanted just because it made me feel good to see a green sun and a purple tree. In any case, kids knew that blue was black, purple was grey, orange was brown, yellow was gold. They might not have known the meaning of the word metaphor, but they knew enough to decode the figurative language of comics.

And most importantly, comics were in colour--which you didn't always get from movies or photographs--so it was a special thing to have a colour comic book. The last thing you wanted for your dime was a book full of grey and black images.

[sunofdarkchild]

Yeah. The blue of the costume was usually meant to be black in-universe.

I always liked the yellow oval. It seemed right for a Batman who is no longer an urban legend, who works with the police all the time, and who is part of the wider superhero community by being in the Justice League and other groups.

The Robin costume is what I had a problem with. Big yellow cape, green and red costume. It really should have been changed in the late 60s/early 70s once they started going for a darker Batman.

[Ulysses]

Wait, the yellow oval has been retconned?

[Jim Kelly]

The Robin costume is what I had a problem with. Big yellow cape, green and red costume. It really should have been changed in the late 60s/early 70s once they started going for a darker Batman.

Since Robin was out on his own by then and Batman was working solo (barring the occasional team-ups) it probably didn't matter. I think the visual of Robin has retroactively come to represent the upbeat nature of Dick compared with Bruce. Most interpretations make Robin the more hopeful of the two and that started with the look of the Boy Wonder. Dark and brooding doesn't really fit his character.

[Commissioner Wayne]

Since Robin was out on his own by then and Batman was working solo (barring the occasional team-ups) it probably didn't matter. I think the visual of Robin has retroactively come to represent the upbeat nature of Dick compared with Bruce. Most interpretations make Robin the more hopeful of the two and that started with the look of the Boy Wonder. Dark and brooding doesn't really fit his character.

This is an example of what I've always considered a problem with revisionist history in comics. What purpose does this change in Robin's costume in the New 52 and Rebirth serve, other than for an artist or editor to show what THEY wished he looked like? I mean seriously, there isn't even a utility belt on him! And what is the purpose of the big yellow circle/oval? To protect his naval? Ugh! Brings back memories of the horrible WCA Wonder Man days...

170px-Robin_(Dick_Grayson_-_New_52_version).jpg

[Ascended]

Keep the oval. Dude has dozens of suits, no reason one of them can't have it. And any time the artists get to draw the costume display, where they're all in glass cases, it gets used as a way to easter egg stuff and the oval will end up on page anyway.

Personally Id rather he go back to it. I'm fine without the trunks (prefer it that way actually) and prefer a more tactical design, but the yellow oval is good for merchandising and on a all black-dark gray suit it stands out, encouraging people to aim for his heavily armored chest instead of his chin.

My personal favorite Bat-suit was the Batman Inc version though, so I've got a bias. That oval wasn't just yellow, it glowed.

[Ascended]

This is an example of what I've always considered a problem with revisionist history in comics. What purpose does this change in Robin's costume in the New 52 and Rebirth serve, other than for an artist or editor to show what THEY wished he looked like? I mean seriously, there isn't even a utility belt on him! And what is the purpose of the big yellow circle/oval? To protect his naval? Ugh! Brings back memories of the horrible WCA Wonder Man days...

170px-Robin_(Dick_Grayson_-_New_52_version).jpg

I dont usually see a point to it either. I mean, we all remember that suit. People who have never picked up a comic in their lives know what classic Robin looks like. It's not like a re-design is going to make us forget the silly short shorts or pixie boots.

There is the idea of keeping these characters looking contemporary of course. Like with the New52, why would a fifteen year old in 2011 wear Dick's pantless Robin suit? No way. So in alternate reality type stuff, make whatever changes you want. But the history (and silly costumes) isnt anything the mainstream comics should fear. That depth of history isn't a noose, it's fuel. And hell, when modern artists draw the old suit but add contemporary texture effects? It works well enough for the flashbacks it shows up in.

Still, in Dick's case, I would add long pants though. Just for decency's sake.

[Jim Kelly]

I should have mentioned above that there was talk about Robin changing his costume in the early 1970s. In the 1971 JLA/JSA crossover, Dick's costume got shredded, so the grown-up Robin of Earth-Two gave him a spare costume that Neal Adams had designed for him (I kid you not, that's what he said). So Dick wore that outfit for the rest of the crossover. But he didn't continue to wear it after that--instead the grown-up Robin wore it in later stories. However, there was a 100 page issue of BATMAN in 1974 that had a feature on the various Robin costume redesigns that readers had sent in. Mind you, most of those designs still used some combination of red, yellow, green and black.

[bat39]

Wait, the yellow oval has been retconned?

It was in the New 52. But after Rebirth, its back in continuity. 'Tec #1000 had a bunch of stories set in the past that featured the classic Neal Adams design.

[Ulysses]

It was in the New 52. But after Rebirth, its back in continuity. 'Tec #1000 had a bunch of stories set in the past that featured the classic Neal Adams design.

So NEW 52 had a story specifically about how the yellow oval never existed?

[Celgress]

OP Question - Of course, it should be, IMO.