Silver Surfer vs. The Avengers & X-Men

[Pendaran]

Silver Surfer wasn't always portrayed as this fast and powerful. In the silver and bronze age of comics, his travel speed was impressive, but his reflexes weren't fast enough to evade blows from a slow, heavy bruiser like Ben Grimm or the Hulk. This wasn't PIS, this was Surfer failing to show superhuman reflexes nearly 100% the time. Speaking of Grimm, he was depicted as stronger than default Surfer, though Surfer could channel the power cosmic to amp his strength beyond Ben's.

He actually has some pretty powerful showings in both the Silver and Bronze ages of comics. The Silver Age is when he travelled through time functionally off speed, using the force of that to take out a Durok the Demolisher that had otherwise been wrecking him and Thor. The Silver Age was where he did things like knock out the Hulk with a handful of attacks at most (no, not the one where he got a gamma ray power up, this happened before that in Tales to Astonish). And various other examples. If we're talking the Bronze Age at that, the 80s would have some of the Surfer's wackiest, frankly as far as Korvac for instance, outright nonsensical if you think about it showings.

So.. not really.

[The Arbiter]

The thing that's the most shocking is how consistent it is. His power-level barring maybe five (?) instances has been consistently at "he makes Thor/Hulk/Superman" types look like punks.

It's always been "yea Surfer is a beast". Even during the Grek Pak Hulk-era, and IIRC Surfer was weaker than normal.

The portal and Sakaar in general were specifically noted as messing up Surfers power levels, yeah. Hulk was likewise drained initially from the portal to Sakaar, but Surfer made a point of going "Im allergic to this place". That and Hulk sucker punched him. That and Surfer got up after the sucker punch with no marks or scratches. Dude is a beast.

But Shellhead does have a point. There was a time where Surfer would fairly routinely doubt his own power against the likes of Asgardians. Presentation wise I mean. Not necessarily feats.

Edit: Yeah, as Pendaran points out, the feats of that era outweigh the dialogue pretty hard.

[Captain Morgan]

I mean I've seen my fair share of low showings for him. Including how he often winds up doing against Thor in comics-- yet Beta Ray Bill doesn't seem to get the same jobber aura.

Think about that though. He gets jobbed out to THOR. That's an absurd level of power, when the god of thunder really shouldn't be hanging with you as well as he does.

[Ptrvc]

Serious question, was Surfer less powerful when he was trapped in Earth originally? I'm really only familiar with him through the Defenders which wasn't always the best at keeping power levels in mind (watch as Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer, and Dr. Strange struggle a good against....a gnome.

But like a really big gnome!

I mean he's not giant or anything but he's like 6' 5'' which for a gnome is enormous.)

But yeah in the first year or two of issues Surfer seemed a lot weaker, slower, unable to transmogrify things etc. Was his power reduced and then increased when he was free to roam the cosmos again?

[Ptrvc]

The portal and Sakaar in general were specifically noted as messing up Surfers power levels, yeah. Hulk was likewise drained initially from the portal to Sakaar, but Surfer made a point of going "Im allergic to this place". That and Hulk sucker punched him. That and Surfer got up after the sucker punch with no marks or scratches. Dude is a beast.

But Shellhead does have a point. There was a time where Surfer would fairly routinely doubt his own power against the likes of Asgardians. Presentation wise I mean. Not necessarily feats.

Edit: Yeah, as Pendaran points out, the feats of that era outweigh the dialogue pretty hard.

The big thing was they both got drained but Hulk was able to recover naturally while Surfer had to get off planet and actually recharge himself.

[Wildling]

Serious question, was Surfer less powerful when he was trapped in Earth originally? I'm really only familiar with him through the Defenders which wasn't always the best at keeping power levels in mind (watch as Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer, and Dr. Strange struggle a good against....a gnome.

But like a really big gnome!

I mean he's not giant or anything but he's like 6' 5'' which for a gnome is enormous.)

Sounds like the Hulk of gnomes indeed.

Fit for Doom's garden, maybe?

[The Arbiter]

The big thing was they both got drained but Hulk was able to recover naturally while Surfer had to get off planet and actually recharge himself.

Yeah. Healing factor plus the whole rage=strength mechanic did seem to perk him up faster.

[Shellhead]

Serious question, was Surfer less powerful when he was trapped in Earth originally? I'm really only familiar with him through the Defenders which wasn't always the best at keeping power levels in mind (watch as Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer, and Dr. Strange struggle a good against....a gnome.

But like a really big gnome!

I mean he's not giant or anything but he's like 6' 5'' which for a gnome is enormous.)

But yeah in the first year or two of issues Surfer seemed a lot weaker, slower, unable to transmogrify things etc. Was his power reduced and then increased when he was free to roam the cosmos again?

Englehart didn't explain it well in that issue, but his concept of "gnome" is what many of us might call "earth elemental." He made the point more clearly a few years later, in his excellent book The Point Man.

[Ptrvc]

Sounds like the Hulk of gnomes indeed.

Fit for Doom's garden, maybe?

The only gnomes fit for Doom's garden are Doom-Gnomes. Which are little gnomes designed with the bold, regal countenance of DOOM.

They inhabit every garden in Latveria. JOLLINESS AND FRIVOLITY IS MANDATORY!!! ALL HAIL DOOM!!!

Englehart didn't explain it well in that issue, but his concept of "gnome" is what many of us might call "earth elemental." He made the point more clearly a few years later, in his excellent book The Point Man.

I'm aware of the whole alchemical elemental interpretation of gnomes, but that still seems like it wouldn't be a match for the Defenders, and if it was, why hadn't it single-handedly stopped the crusaders yet? Which was also a thing.

[Beadle]

The only gnomes fit for Doom's garden are Doom-Gnomes. Which are little gnomes designed with the bold, regal countenance of DOOM.

They inhabit every garden in Latveria. JOLLINESS AND FRIVOLITY IS MANDATORY!!! ALL HAIL DOOM!!!

Doom’s proud, majestic wheelbarrow shall stand as the most noble implement. WHEEL BEFORE DOOM!!

Doom shall sit by this pond and, with Doom’s mighty rod in hand... SILENCE YOUR SNIGGERING, FOOLS... proudly catch small oily fish! WHAT??!! THE OILY FISH ARE TO BE FOUND IN SALT WATER ONLY??!! IS DOOM TO BE FOILED AGAIN??!! PIIIILLLCHAAARRDDSSS!!!

[Ptrvc]

Aren't you familiar with the Latverian Mountain Anchovy, bred by Doom himself?

Scientific name Engraulus encrasicolus richardssucksus

Best served braised in olive oil with a white wine pairing.

[heretic]

All 616 comics. New York.
Reaction and travel speeds equalized


Norrin versus:

Thor (current Thor)
She Hulk
Iron Man
Cyclops
Storm
Emma Frost
Magneto

No feats for Odinson's post War of Realms gear, but he has never matched Norrin for durability so while he, Jen, and Bucket-Head Red are brought to their knees among the corpses of the rest of the team the vaguely scuffed metal dude gets in some more shots.

[Cronus]

Serious question, was Surfer less powerful when he was trapped in Earth originally? I'm really only familiar with him through the Defenders which wasn't always the best at keeping power levels in mind (watch as Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer, and Dr. Strange struggle a good against....a gnome.

But like a really big gnome!

I mean he's not giant or anything but he's like 6' 5'' which for a gnome is enormous.)

But yeah in the first year or two of issues Surfer seemed a lot weaker, slower, unable to transmogrify things etc. Was his power reduced and then increased when he was free to roam the cosmos again?

Yeah...in the Defenders Surfer routinely forgot he could travel time, usually leaving that chore to Strange. During Lee/Buscema run, he rarely cut loose. Noteworthy, Stan spared no adjectives in describing the Surfer as mind bogglingly fast. 20 years later in Enslavers, he used no less than four separate instances to showcase/highlight the Surfer's incredible reaction speed...so presentation of the Surfer as this amazingly mercurial character has always been there.

More to your point...Galactus had removed the Surfer's space time powers...which I surmise had nothing to do with physical demonstrations of speed.

In Annihilation, supposedly Galactus "forgave" the Surfer...evidently restoring him to full power. Problem is...post Annihilation, Surfer has done nothing feats wise to support the power increase. So...by feats the same?

[moonknight11]

Silver Surfer wasn't always portrayed as this fast and powerful. In the silver and bronze age of comics, his travel speed was impressive, but his reflexes weren't fast enough to evade blows from a slow, heavy bruiser like Ben Grimm or the Hulk. This wasn't PIS, this was Surfer failing to show superhuman reflexes nearly 100% the time. Speaking of Grimm, he was depicted as stronger than default Surfer, though Surfer could channel the power cosmic to amp his strength beyond Ben's.

Early Fantastic Four was different from now yeah. I remember Thing being able to slig it out with Namor on the beach and only losing cuz he happened to go human form at the worst time.