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  1. #1
    Super Moderator The Watcher's Avatar
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    Default The Red Wedding Gets An Unexpected Guest

    In the history you know Robb Stark, his wife, his mother and many of his followers were brutally slain when the dishonorable and treacherous Walder Frey violates the laws of guest right and has them ambushed while they were attending the wedding of Edmure Tully to his daughter.

    But in different iterations of the event, there is an attendee present who wasn't there in the timeline you've seen. A stranger from another world who recently arrived on Westeros and befriended Robb Stark, who then comes along with him to the wedding. Could this extra person survive and escape? Save others attending the wedding? If so, how? And if they survive what changes do they make in the course of events which follow it?

    I, The Watcher, pose this question to you all...

    What If The Following Were At The Red Wedding?

    A. John McClane, who happens to have his police-issued gun and two spare clips on him.

    B. Jason Bourne

    C. Oliver Queen (Arrow)

    D. Matt Murdock (Netflix)

    E. Danny Rand (Netflix)

    F. Steve Rogers in his prime (MCU)
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  2. #2
    Mighty Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Book or tv version? All of these people are capable of surviving and escaping, and maybe even saving someone else. But I don't think any of them except maybe Murdock could save Robb Stark, as he is the target of the very first treacherous attack, IIRC. Murdock could potentially detect the treachery of the Freys before the Starks even enter the Twins, avoiding the whole scenario. John McClane would probably have the most impact after the attack starts, because the sound of his gun might give the Freys pause, especially after he puts a couple of them down. But that wouldn't prevent the treacherous slaughter of the Stark troops outside.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator The Watcher's Avatar
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    Television version since I haven't read the books yet. And would it occur to any of them to take Walder Frey hostage to stop the massacare, and if so, would those who try be able to do so successfully?
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  4. #4
    Mighty Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Watcher View Post
    Television version since I haven't read the books yet. And would it occur to any of them to take Walder Frey hostage to stop the massacare, and if so, would those who try be able to do so successfully?
    Walder Frey is old, and has many, many descendants. He would make a terrible hostage as many Freys wouldn't mind if he died, because they would all move one step closer to power.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    In answer to your question, none of these characters seem like the type to take a hostage, but all would be theoretically capable of doing it. I'm not sure how the default Rumbles bloodlust would work in this scenario with respect to hostage-taking.

  6. #6
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    I don't think bloodlust is on by default in scenarios, as it would make many of them pointless. Can't have Iron Man try to solve crime in Gotham, if he immediately stops it by using his time machine to travel to its founding, and sends the entire area to the Negative Zone where it explodes in a massive matter/antimatter explosion, thereby eliminating all crime from ever being commited in Gotham. Kinda defeats the spirit of scenarios.

  7. #7

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    McClane would survive although he won't be preventing anyone else from getting killed. He then kills the Freys and the Boltons after the initial arrow barrage. Same deal with Captain America and Arrow.

    Jason Bourne would either get killed or pinned down by archers.

    Matt Murdock might have a second or two to react when the archers nock their bows. Can he do anything in 2 seconds? He might be able to cause a scene to distract the archers from aiming at Robb thus giving them a fighting chance.

  8. #8
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Matt will hear of the treachery long before they enter the grounds. He'll detect the lying by skipping heartbeats. He'll smell the fear and such on the bodies. Yeah, he'd outright stop the results. Matt is also wearing a suit with enough body-armor to no-sell arrows that he doesn't trivially catch or dodge, and nobody from Westeros is EVER touching him with a blade, given his skill and endurance. Even if he doesn't figure it out before they are in the room, he will long before the slow-ass Westeros archers can fire, and he'll be launching plates and cups and knives and forks with superhuman accuracy to mess them up before they can figure out what he's doing. That might be enough to give Team Robb a chance to secure themselves and sound the alert.

    Given Rumbles rules, Danny would be the ultra-high-end bullet timer with ki-based pistols we see in the last scene, and given that, he can probably just shoot all the archers the moment they draw, long before they can actually fire. He can then annihilate Bolton and Frey and anyone else he chooses.

    If it's a version of Danny before that scene, and he remembers all of his powers, he's quick enough to likely protect Robb at least, get him hidden, then start AoE'ing a bunch of guys. It won't stop the army getting slaughtered, but he'll get away.

    Oli can get away, and might save a few. But it doesn't make a massive difference.

    Bourne... might figure out the plot by his ridiculous ability to read nearly invisible cues and react well, but if he doesn't, this scenario doesn't really play to his strengths. He can probably get someone out as long as that someone listens to him, but he can't stop the events once they start.

    Steve, by virtue of being like 20x stronger and 10x faster than anyone in the room, can do a lot of damage, but again, he doesn't have any way of stopping the general result of the thing.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
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    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

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  9. #9
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Given Rumbles rules, Danny would be the ultra-high-end bullet timer with ki-based pistols we see in the last scene, and given that, he can probably just shoot all the archers the moment they draw, long before they can actually fire. He can then annihilate Bolton and Frey and anyone else he chooses.
    Why, why did you remind me of this agony?
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  10. #10
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Why, why did you remind me of this agony?
    Because I, sadly and perhaps uniquely, really would have liked to see where they took that. Look, I think that we can agree that Netflix Iron Fist was just a gallon of despair sauce inundating a platter of poached disappointment served with a side of pan-seared organic incomprehension, so anything to change that up, even to make it as silly as using emoji to reply to a serious question from your significant other, would have worked wonders for me.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  11. #11
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Because I, sadly and perhaps uniquely, really would have liked to see where they took that. Look, I think that we can agree that Netflix Iron Fist was just a gallon of despair sauce inundating a platter of poached disappointment served with a side of pan-seared organic incomprehension, so anything to change that up, even to make it as silly as using emoji to reply to a serious question from your significant other, would have worked wonders for me.
    I was vaguely okay with the whole 'Coleen is now Iron Fist, Danny journeys the world, special guns, Orson Randall link, now Iron Pistols Whatever' thing. Like you say, as a divergence from the dog's breakfast Iron Fist turned out to be, it could have maybe gone somewhere. Likely not; likely we would have gotten another arc full of poor characterization, lousy fights except maybe one or two likely involving Coleen, and a highly bland and dull villain subbing in for a complex, interesting one half-way through.

    But maybe. Also, seedy-Ward on the journey would have been awesome, Ward being my all-time favourite character on that show.

    However, when Danny demonstrated flat-out superspeed -- from nowhere -- for that dorky bullet-shooting, it took away the 'maybe' for me.

    Edit: My wife looked at me with this pitying expression, and signed something like 'That was just bad.' And I had no defence.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 06-27-2019 at 06:52 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    I couldn't bring myself to watch the second season of Ironfist. The first was too rough.

  13. #13
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I couldn't bring myself to watch the second season of Ironfist. The first was too rough.
    Second season was...I'd like to say 'better', but it really wasn't. It did have some good points to it, mind, like MCU Typhoid Mary (Mary Walker on the show, no special name or superpowers, other than the inexplicable ability to keep up with Danny and Davros in fights). Basically, it sort of hung in there is the best I can say about it, with mildly improved fight sequences (given season 1, where the only good fights were 'Danny versus the Guards', 'Misty in the Cage', and 'Misty versus non-name Chinese Swordswoman', this isn't saying a lot).

    High point: Ward was awesome. Love that guy. And Misty's presence in the show was also fun.

    Mileage, it may vary.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  14. #14
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I was vaguely okay with the whole 'Coleen is now Iron Fist, Danny journeys the world, special guns, Orson Randall link, now Iron Pistols Whatever' thing. Like you say, as a divergence from the dog's breakfast Iron Fist turned out to be, it could have maybe gone somewhere. Likely not; likely we would have gotten another arc full of poor characterization, lousy fights except maybe one or two likely involving Coleen, and a highly bland and dull villain subbing in for a complex, interesting one half-way through.

    But maybe. Also, seedy-Ward on the journey would have been awesome, Ward being my all-time favourite character on that show.

    However, when Danny demonstrated flat-out superspeed -- from nowhere -- for that dorky bullet-shooting, it took away the 'maybe' for me.

    Edit: My wife looked at me with this pitying expression, and signed something like 'That was just bad.' And I had no defence.
    Ah, I've got this vision of Mrs. Andpointies signing that with a sad expression on her face as the light slowly drains from your eyes. Let's toast our fallen hero.

    The only thing there: Danny had another moment of super speed in the series, with fully coherent explanation! They just mostly forgot about it so that they could give us boring choreography instead. It's incredible that the people (to some extent) who brought us Daredevil and the incredible combat therein could also subject us to Iron Fist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I couldn't bring myself to watch the second season of Ironfist. The first was too rough.
    You are not mistaken. My love for the character superseded my skepticism. We all know how that ends.



    Thank you Pen.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  15. #15
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Ah, I've got this vision of Mrs. Andpointies signing that with a sad expression on her face as the light slowly drains from your eyes. Let's toast our fallen hero.
    It had drained from my eyes long before that, but certainly this extinguished the final sparks.

    It's incredible that the people (to some extent) who brought us Daredevil and the incredible combat therein could also subject us to Iron Fist.
    It. Freaking. Baffled me. Even the fight between Daredevil and Iron Fist in the Defenders, it was as if it was done (again) by two different choreographers, Matt using his own and Danny using HIS own.

    Bizarre.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

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