Is Legion the best Marvel based TV series ever?

[Theleviathan]

Nothing to do with "Not Smart Enough..."

Ultimately, folks are largely used to plots moving forward at a certain rate. Nothing about that is "Poor..."

It's just pace that won't work for most folks.

I suspended my plot adherence for stretches in season 1 also. The problem is when it becomes so untethered and sporadic the narrative suffers. And when the narrative suffered, it appeared to become too self-indulgent. TheRinger wrapped up my thoughts better than I probably can.

It reminded me a lot of the mistakes of True Detective's second season but with different styles. The people making it thought what worked was the bits and not the narrative, so they ran the bits into the ground around a flimsy story and thought the schtick would carry the show. It doesn't. The schtick works when the story does, not the reverse. Legion's second season failed for the same reason for me: too much schtick and not enough story.

[numberthirty]

Totally agree on that a season that stays essentially "Static..." for a long stretch is not going to work for lots of folks.

That said, I think that the pace that the creators want to set is more important than how many people that pace will work for.

[Theleviathan]

Totally agree on that a season that stays essentially "Static..." for a long stretch is not going to work for lots of folks.

That said, I think that the pace that the creators want to set is more important than how many people that pace will work for.

You will find few bigger Noah Hawley fans than me. I love Fargo, especially the random UFOs! So I want to give him plenty of creative freedom, for sure. He's earned it.

But even the best and most creative artists can lose sight of what made their work great and become self-indulgent. Not purposefully, necessarily. I think Legion's 2nd season did that for me. I'm genuinely glad you enjoyed it, just sharing why I didn't respond well to it. I enjoy the stories he tells and the story in Season 1 was fantastic. He took that fantastic story and put it on roids with the awesome visuals and creativity. I put that first season up with some of my favorite seasons of ANY television. I did not find his sequel to that story compelling or interesting and it got lost in a sea of noise.

I remain very hopeful Season 3 will learn from some of the criticisms leveled at last season. The first episode was encouraging for me.

[numberthirty]

I totally get why a largely "Static..." season(and what will obviously go with it is going to be too big of an ask for even some fans. Just isn't going to work for some folks.

That said, I get the feeling that this season might have the potential to wind up being even more "Static..." than season two.

[Theleviathan]

I totally get why a largely "Static..." season(and what will obviously go with it is going to be too big of an ask for even some fans. Just isn't going to work for some folks.

That said, I get the feeling that this season might have the potential to wind up being even more "Static..." than season two.

A constant time loop can still have forward moving (non-static) plot, if that's what you mean.

[numberthirty]

It is.

I'm just not sure how much forward motion there will be(assuming that a loop comes into play).

[Theleviathan]

It is.

I'm just not sure how much forward motion there will be(assuming that a loop comes into play).

Guess that depends on what "forward" means. I just want primacy of the story, as it was in Season 1. Season 2 felt like "Hawley's Magical Mindfuck Hour". I'll tune into that if someone wants to give him that platform, but I tune into Legion for the story of David Haller. All that creative jazz is the awesome sauce for the story, it isn't a substitute for it.

[Sammael]

Daredevil.

Not even close.

Legion at its best, is the best of them all.

Below that is Agents of Shield, below that are the rest.

[kidfresh512]

Nothing to do with "Not Smart Enough..."

Ultimately, folks are largely used to plots moving forward at a certain rate. Nothing about that is "Poor..."

It's just pace that won't work for most folks.

At the end of the day it is TV and entertainment. It needs to "work for most folks" to not be cancelled. And that does not mean you have to dumb your creativity down, or resort to paint by numbers storytelling. Most people here have said season one was the template they should have built on for Legion s2. But, they didn't and s2 suffered in quality for the opinions here and from ratings.

I had completely written legion off when the news of development first broke. A show about him?! Of all the X men you pick him to get his own show? But season 1 and how they handled Shadow King and brought him to life on screen and David's unique powers and the abstract display of his craziness and trippy mindscapes completely brought me around. It completely sold me on the show, I felt like Shadow King was menacing, was seductive, his powers and threat level were handled wonderfully.

S2 was just how weird can we get how far can we take the trippy aspects, and they didn't follow through with moving the story along for me.

I just watched the first episode of s3 last night and we will see how more of it goes, but time travel can go very very wrong on a show this abstract if they don't have a good firm plot under them.

[Batman Begins 2005]

Obviously the show isn't done yet, 3rd season just started. But between the ABC shows (SHIELD, Agent Carter), the Netflix shows and the random ones here and there, it seems Legion ranks above them IMO. They do have the luxury of not having to adhere to too much of existing material and probably have the most creative freedom of any other Marvel based tv show.

Thoughts?

Daredevil specifically Daredevil S1 followed by S3.

[darewithpeace]

it wasnt perfect but the gifted was pretty good too

[nx01a]

I would've agreed if it weren't for Legion season 2 being weird and bizarre just for the sake of it.

I really enjoyed season 1 but yeah, season 2 was needlessly weird. Legion was cured of his insanity, which was the driving force behind most of the justifiable weirdness of season 1, but we got the androgynous semi-robots and wicker basket head man and the sushi boat canteen and...

Me too, I gave up half way through S 2. Tired of the self-indulgent, needlessly obscure story telling. Far from the best show.

I also quit 1/2 way through season 2. I was really disappointed, and I'm also sad that some critics think that strange and convoluted automatically equals good, just like some critics think that dark and depressing automatically equals good.

[Sammael]

it wasnt perfect but the gifted was pretty good too

yes it was, the actor that played eclipse was flawless. He is a perfect being.

[Flash Gordon]

Daredevil

10charas

[Theleviathan]

Gifted is in the Iron Fist tier of the rankings.