View Poll Results: Where would you rate this?

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  1. #46
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Let me put it this way: I find the way the story connects being power-mad (or evil) with abortion a misogynistic and morally reprehensible message.

    If Gaelforce's reading of the story as the conflict between family and career is what Orlando intended, then I think Orlando did a poor job at it because he (and the DC editorial team) failed to realise they had put another hugely unwanted message into the story.
    Sorry, it's still not clear to me if you think the issue was bad because you don't agree with what you think is the writer's opinion or because you think the writing itself wasn't good.

    It is clear to me that the message you think the writer is conveying is reprehensible. That's your opinion and you should get to have it. I'm just wondering if you think the actual writing is poorly done from a non-moral standpoint. Like, say you agreed with the writer's message, would you think it's a well-written book?

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    Sorry, it's still not clear to me if you think the issue was bad because you don't agree with what you think is the writer's opinion or because you think the writing itself wasn't good.
    Sorry for misunderstanding you earlier. My opinion isn't really changed from what I wrote in my review of the issue: it's a fun and exciting story.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Yeah, but this ignores the context put forward by this page, which establishes that there is more at work than just the longing for a child.

    The Empress isn’t just career oriented, she’s a full on militant conqueror. The whole world is a dark mirror universe. The Empress doesn’t just suddenly become bad because she decides not to have a child. Her not wanting a child, according to the story, is prompted by her desire to focus on conquest.

    Personally I’m not sure what Hippolyta was hoping to achieve in this exercise, but the link between no kids and outright evil is thin, IMO. Is Talia al Ghul suddenly less bad because she wanted a kid when she date-raped Batman?

    Attachment 83980
    Yeah.

    Empress Hippolyta seems to represent many other decisions that Queen Hyppolita did not make (such as becoming a conqueror).

    Empress Hippolyta despising motherhood is a reflection of Queen Hippolyta fear of failing as Amazons queen. So, other attitudes of Empress Hippolyta should have similar origin.
    Last edited by Konja7; 06-30-2019 at 06:12 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    Yeah.

    Empress Hippolyta seems to represent many other decisions that Queen Hyppolita did not make (such as becoming a conqueror).

    Empress Hippolyta despising motherhood is a reflection of Queen Hippolyta fear of failing as Amazons queen. So, other attitudes of Empress Hippolyta should have similar origin.
    Precisely. The message here for me is that being a loving parent is an impediment to being a conquest driven megalomaniac.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  5. #50
    Incredible Member NYCER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarquisAsh View Post
    It’s hard to say. Because she did the opposite of Hippolyta..as Hippolyta gave birth she could’ve sculpted the clay and threw it in the ocean
    I believe this is the correct reading if we’re to accept the premise that the Empress and Queen are diametrically opposed characters. It would make sense that the Queen gave birth naturally whereas the Empress discarded the clay sculpture.

  6. #51
    Spectacular Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Why do you guys think? Did Steve Orlando start off strong?
    It was an enjoyable Silver Age-y story to break up the boring monotony this run by the over-hyped GWW has become. Visually, if anyone is ever to bring the Amazons out of the stone age, then Lopresti is the one to do it. I dug the Futuristic/Greco-Roman fusion!

    Might these Dimension Chi Amazons (Chimazons??) somehow be the stand-ins used in the fake Themyscira Diana apparently kept visiting in Rucka's clumsy Rebirth story? It might retroactively make that trainwreck of a story halfway plausible!

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    It was an enjoyable Silver Age-y story to break up the boring monotony this run by the over-hyped GWW has become. Visually, if anyone is ever to bring the Amazons out of the stone age, then Lopresti is the one to do it. I dug the Futuristic/Greco-Roman fusion!

    Might these Dimension Chi Amazons (Chimazons??) somehow be the stand-ins used in the fake Themyscira Diana apparently kept visiting in Rucka's clumsy Rebirth story? It might retroactively make that trainwreck of a story halfway plausible!
    Yeah, there certainly are an increasing number of alternate reality Amazons running around.

    What I am still not clear about is are these Chi Amazons actual living creatures, or are they just another malfunctioning holodeck program? Plausibly to me it would seem they have to be the latter, though the writers can say whatever they want. But I would need a damn good explanation for how Hippolyta managed to wish up an entire separate universe.

    And yes, I am getting well bored of the 'hype' that is piled onto the writers of books. Even before an issue comes out, the people doing comic-book reviews are claiming it's going the most awesome thing in the history of awesome. Maybe just publish the book and let history decide whether it was good or not?

    It will be interesting to see what the sales figures for this one look like, since as of #71 this run has the lowest sales for a single issue since Rebirth.
    Last edited by brettc1; 07-06-2019 at 06:19 PM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    And yes, I am getting well bored of the 'hype' that is piled onto the writers of books. Even before an issue comes out, the people doing comic-book reviews are claiming it's going the most awesome thing in the history of awesome. Maybe just publish the book and let history decide whether it was good or not?

    It will be interesting to see what the sales figures for this one look like, since as of #71 this run has the lowest sales for a single issue since Rebirth.
    Agreed on the poor state of comic book reviewing. I think the standard of discussion here is generally higher compared to a lot of the reviewers listed on Comicbook Round Up. There are a couple of good reviewers out there, but they seem to be drowned out by the ones with little understanding of their own biases and the need to appreciate the story on its own terms.

    I think the poor sales at least partly are due to the chaotic art situation. I understand the trickiness of the biweekly shipping, but far too often the art works against the emotional beats of the story or is just subpar.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Yeah, there certainly are an increasing number of alternate reality Amazons running around.

    What I am still not clear about is are these Chi Amazons actual living creatures, or are they just another malfunctioning holodeck program? Plausibly to me it would seem they have to be the latter, though the writers can say whatever they want. But I would need a damn good explanation for how Hippolyta managed to wish up an entire separate universe.

    And yes, I am getting well bored of the 'hype' that is piled onto the writers of books. Even before an issue comes out, the people doing comic-book reviews are claiming it's going the most awesome thing in the history of awesome. Maybe just publish the book and let history decide whether it was good or not?

    It will be interesting to see what the sales figures for this one look like, since as of #71 this run has the lowest sales for a single issue since Rebirth.
    I have/had precisely the same thoughts/questions about Chi-Land and then I just decided not to think about it too much. Like how Antiope and Grail got there in the first place...

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