Weakest Version of Superman that can beat Dragonball Super Broly

[Captain Smith]

Just saiyan, that the greatest stupidity of heat vision was when it saved Lois when nothing else could. Even the purple ray. George Reeves could beat Broly - why, just because I say so with no evidence or feats!

[The Arbiter]

Playing super duper devils advocate for a moment, mostly out of sheer curiosity/stupidity, I do recall a scene from "Rock of Ages" or whatever where the Atom enters Darkseids brain via a flash bangs light waves.

And the Atom is toootally Heat Vision! ;p

[Siriel]

I've given up on pointing out how poorly the movie follows the anime, but either way do we assume Broly starts in his strongest form, ignoring that he doesn't have any notable control over his power at all and requires extended ramping up to get there?

Thing is, by what we know about DB and fusions and such, that fused being was likely stronger than any single being we've ever seen except Xeno, who is a casual-with-a-thought universe-buster.

Very dubious of Gogeta being stronger than Jiren.

Gogeta required fairly extended effort to beat Broly, and Goku wasn't even 100% sure that Broly was stronger than Beerus.

Meanwhile Jiren was noted to be above the Gods of Destruction before he even got serious. And even if you assume that Whis could sense that he was holding back, it was still before he got his huge power-up at the end of the tournament from breaking out of the shell caused by his trauma.

And unlike Goku not being able to access Ultra Instinct, he didn't lose that.

[BitVyper]

Well, I think he was noted as having defeated one particular God of Destruction, not being stronger than all of them. And clown guy has no actual feats. I mean I'm okay with assuming he's as strong as Beerus, but this is getting into multiple layers of offscreen, so I really don't feel like the statement should be taken that seriously, especially when Jiren has a ton of feats onscreen that do a really good job of establishing his power.

Also unless there's been more Super, do we actually KNOW if he retained that power boost?

[The Arbiter]

The anime notes that Jiren is stronger then his Universe's GoD. Whis goes on to elaborate that this particular GoD is actually /more/ powerful than Beerus. Of course Beerus is like "It was just arm wrestling!" or whatever, but the ground work is laid out pretty clearly.

I'm with Siriel. Jiren was noted as being GoD + /before/ his final boost. I think both he and UI Goku are a bit above Gogeta personally.

Anyways, I liked the earlier answer of "Somewhere above pre crisis but below Though Robot" as to who could beat Broly. Assuming Broly starts at full power and not base.

[The Arbiter]

Also unless there's been more Super, do we actually KNOW if he retained that power boost?

No reason to assume he didn't. It wasn't a new form. Nor was it implied to be anything particularly more strenuous than "digging deeper". UI was like this big deal, noted as a strenuous thing and as probably temporary and super tricky to master. Jirens was like "Ohhh shit he MAD now!"

[Ptrvc]

This our fault.

We did this.

It was us.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

No reason to assume he didn't. It wasn't a new form. Nor was it implied to be anything particularly more strenuous than "digging deeper". UI was like this big deal, noted as a strenuous thing and as probably temporary and super tricky to master. Jirens was like "Ohhh shit he MAD now!"

Jiren is also at Silver Age Superdick levels of dickery. Yells about the true meaning of strength, tries to murderize defenseless women and children.

Jiren da bess.

[Siriel]

Well, I think he was noted as having defeated one particular God of Destruction, not being stronger than all of them. And clown guy has no actual feats. I mean I'm okay with assuming he's as strong as Beerus, but this is getting into multiple layers of offscreen, so I really don't feel like the statement should be taken that seriously

Jiren was rumored to be stronger than Belmod, which Belmod later confirms, whom Whis considers stronger than Beerus. (Beerus objects that he only lost at arm-wrestling.)

After seeing Jiren's power in action Whis is halfway through saying that his power is on the level of a GoD (not a specific one, but the category), then corrects himself that Jiren is beyond that. If Jiren wasn't at least stronger than Beerus, Whis would have no reason to say he's beyond Gods of Destruction.

It's not multiple layers of offscreen, it's just things that are directly stated about how characters stand compared to each other.

Also unless there's been more Super, do we actually KNOW if he retained that power boost?

There's no reason he wouldn't; it was specifically noted to be that he had a mental block before and broke through it.

[Ptrvc]

Jiren is also at Silver Age Superdick levels of dickery. Yells about the true meaning of strength, tries to murderize defenseless women and children.

Jiren da bess.

All the strongest people got dead parents.

Goku coming back to life made Gohan weak. Objective truth.

[The Arbiter]

Jiren is also at Silver Age Superdick levels of dickery. Yells about the true meaning of strength, tries to murderize defenseless women and children.

Jiren da bess.

When did Jiren do that!?

You mean when he attacked the spectators seats? Were their children there?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

When did Jiren do that!?

You mean when he attacked the spectators seats? Where their children there?

Krillin ! He's small and oh so innocent !

[The Watcher]

I haven't seen the new DBS movie but Post-Crisis Superman is strong enough to shatter a planet by jumping off it while so severely depowered he couldn't fly. But more importantly, Flash taught him the vibration phasing trick, and he's used it to pass through both matter and energy. Can Broly actually touch him before he gets a heat vision lobotomy? Eyeballs naturally reflect light inward, it would be trivial for Superman to kill...pretty much anyone who has functional eyes, needs their brain to live, and lacks organs that have feats for resisting star level heat.

The above claim blatantly disregards how character's capabilities are determined by feats evaluated with Rumbles standards of evidence. This is not the first time you have done such a thing on the board when the topic was Superman. Because you have repeatedly demonstrated an inability to abide by the the rules and standards of evidence when it comes to the character you may no longer post on this thread or others in which Superman is the topic on Rumbles.

[BitVyper]

Jiren was rumored to be stronger than Belmod, which Belmod later confirms, whom Whis considers stronger than Beerus. (Beerus objects that he only lost at arm-wrestling.)

After seeing Jiren's power in action Whis is halfway through saying that his power is on the level of a GoD (not a specific one, but the category), then corrects himself that Jiren is beyond that. If Jiren wasn't at least stronger than Beerus, Whis would have no reason to say he's beyond Gods of Destruction.

It's not multiple layers of offscreen, it's just things that are directly stated about how characters stand compared to each other.



There's no reason he wouldn't; it was specifically noted to be that he had a mental block before and broke through it.

I'm not really against any of this, I just think it's not really saying a lot when the guy has a whole ton of actual feats. We're basically told he's nebulously stronger than guys who are nebulously stronger than Goku, which is already like, super super clear from what he does in the fights. If anything, it's telling us more about where Belmod tops out than what Jiren's power level is. I don't think it really extends to a Gogeta vs Jiren hypothetical via similar statements about Broly, though I'll grant that I'd expect post-power up Jiren to win that, at least. Pre, I'm less sure about.

As for the Belmod vs Beerus thing, THAT bit is pretty tenuous, and Beerus' response makes it come off like a bit of teasing from Whis.

[Jcogginsa]

For what it's worth

1. Goku claims that Broly might be stronger than Beerus
2.Based on Circumstantial evidence present from the anime and Manga, Super Saiyan Blue seems to be the bare minimum needed to be a GoD
3. In the Super Manga Shin notes that Vegito has surpassed Beerus
4. It's noted that the shockwaves produced by Goku and Beerus' clash get stronger the longer they travel. Which is kind of the opposite of how real shockwaves work. This indicates that the universal destruction isn't just a standard feat of power