Avengers 20, we are at peak Aaron people!

[Triniking1234]

Aaron's acting as if Byrne has been forcing his muscle girl fetish on us since the 80s.

Also that Wakandan yoga comment made me chuckle.

[charliehustle415]

Hate to go off topic, but there isn't a dedicated Avengers thread.

But, how long do we think Aaron will stay on Avengers? He will be done writing Thor in December (I'm assuming with the final issue of King Thor #4).

I wonder since Avengers is almost double shipping will he stay on until 50 or continue until 100?

[Anthony W]

* As everybody is so focused on the She-Hulk controversy, nobody noticed Captain America on a winged horse. I did.
* There are dark elves in the cover, but not in the comic.
* The judge can not overrule an objection until the objection has been formulated.
* Savage She-Hulk is treated as the defendant, but she is later mentioned as a witness.
* Also, savage She-Hulk has no lawyer.
* Also, she is allowed in Court dressed like that.
* The judge in the dream sequence is plain Jennifer Walters, who overrules all objections of the savage She-Hulk, and grants permission to standard She-Hulk to "treat the witness as hostile". This would imply that she does not like this identity, which is refuted by the rest of the comic.
* Jen agrees with Black Panther that she does not want another outburst like the one in Russia. And then thinks "Do I?". Yes, you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing that Wakandan yoga.
* "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Except people did like me. A lot." However, she could turn into She-Hulk at will, and did not require anger to trigger it.
* She says she likes her new self because in the old days the trolls would make crass jokes even while she took them down, and now nobody's laughing. Except that they still do. See her fight with Ulik later.
* "Here's your official Avengers sitrep..." excuse me, did you say "official"? At the moment, the Avengers are not endorsed by the US nor the UN. They are as "official" as a friends gang in high school.
* If she makes such a big deal about not liking to be taken as a sex symbol, Jen shouldn't wear skintight gym clothes and give her back to the panel. You are giving contradictory messages, girl...
* "You just get to live in a celestial and have awesome friends like me". You left out "pleasant"!
* What does She-Hulk need a hammer for? Specially a hammer that breaks in pieces when used in a fight?
* The usual criticism to Aaron's Thor, voiced by the literal king of the trolls. Subtle.
* Also, why would Ulik possibly care who gets to be called "Thor"?
* Also, why would She-Hulk get so enraged by Ulik's remark? Does she even know the female Thor?
* Also, Thor (either one) is not there, why are they talking about that?
* After beating Ulik to a pulp, she thinks "The defense rests, ladies of the jury". Sorry, but the fight has not invalidated anything that standard She-Hulk said.
* Deadpool wastes a chance to ask "Why so serious?"
* Deadpool asks why did she stop being funny, and she says that she would rather be free to be ugly. One thing does not invalidate the other, as a Deadpool without mask can prove.
* Ka-Zar forgot to mention that the dinosaurs of the Savage Land were saved by aliens. The mass extinction did take place, and is not invalidated by those.
* So, Bruce once mentioned that when he hulked out he turned into an ugly monster who can't even get dressed, and envy that Jen could turn into an amazonian beauty. And Jen got offended because there are paparazzi following her, and that's so much worse. And having a legion of destructive monsters inside his head, all trying to take control? And all the destruction that those monsters left on their wake? And each time he wakes up in the middle of nowhere, not knowing what new disaster he had caused? Having to live on the run, unable to have any semblance of a normal life? With the military trying to kill him, dissect him, clone him and kill him again? He surely forgot to mention all those.
* By the way, Hulk CAN wear clothes while Hulked out, as Professor Hulk has proved time and again.
* Jen complains about the times she had been hit on during team-ups, but what about the times when SHE flirted with others?
* I don't need to google the Fantastic Four story, I had already read it some years ago. She does not mention that nobody told the printers that those were photos of a green woman, so they were "fixed" and published with the colors adjusted in studio. Meaning that, for the world, those were just XXX photos of a common woman, and nobody realized it was her.
* "Bruce got angry and went to Hulk-off some steam". Really? Turning into Hulk is an agony for Banner, not a relaxation exercise.
* "I'm out here saving the world". No, you're not fighting frost giants to save world, only to cope with your low self-esteem problems and "Hulk off some steam". The world being saved in the process is just a side consequence, but don't pretend you do it because of a desire to help others.

Aaron gotta' Aaron.

[Kurolegacy]

* As everybody is so focused on the She-Hulk controversy, nobody noticed Captain America on a winged horse. I did.
* There are dark elves in the cover, but not in the comic.
* The judge can not overrule an objection until the objection has been formulated.
* Savage She-Hulk is treated as the defendant, but she is later mentioned as a witness.
* Also, savage She-Hulk has no lawyer.
* Also, she is allowed in Court dressed like that.
* The judge in the dream sequence is plain Jennifer Walters, who overrules all objections of the savage She-Hulk, and grants permission to standard She-Hulk to "treat the witness as hostile". This would imply that she does not like this identity, which is refuted by the rest of the comic.
* Jen agrees with Black Panther that she does not want another outburst like the one in Russia. And then thinks "Do I?". Yes, you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing that Wakandan yoga.
* "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Except people did like me. A lot." However, she could turn into She-Hulk at will, and did not require anger to trigger it.
* She says she likes her new self because in the old days the trolls would make crass jokes even while she took them down, and now nobody's laughing. Except that they still do. See her fight with Ulik later.
* "Here's your official Avengers sitrep..." excuse me, did you say "official"? At the moment, the Avengers are not endorsed by the US nor the UN. They are as "official" as a friends gang in high school.
* If she makes such a big deal about not liking to be taken as a sex symbol, Jen shouldn't wear skintight gym clothes and give her back to the panel. You are giving contradictory messages, girl...
* "You just get to live in a celestial and have awesome friends like me". You left out "pleasant"!
* What does She-Hulk need a hammer for? Specially a hammer that breaks in pieces when used in a fight?
* The usual criticism to Aaron's Thor, voiced by the literal king of the trolls. Subtle.
* Also, why would Ulik possibly care who gets to be called "Thor"?
* Also, why would She-Hulk get so enraged by Ulik's remark? Does she even know the female Thor?
* Also, Thor (either one) is not there, why are they talking about that?
* After beating Ulik to a pulp, she thinks "The defense rests, ladies of the jury". Sorry, but the fight has not invalidated anything that standard She-Hulk said.
* Deadpool wastes a chance to ask "Why so serious?"
* Deadpool asks why did she stop being funny, and she says that she would rather be free to be ugly. One thing does not invalidate the other, as a Deadpool without mask can prove.
* Ka-Zar forgot to mention that the dinosaurs of the Savage Land were saved by aliens. The mass extinction did take place, and is not invalidated by those.
* So, Bruce once mentioned that when he hulked out he turned into an ugly monster who can't even get dressed, and envy that Jen could turn into an amazonian beauty. And Jen got offended because there are paparazzi following her, and that's so much worse. And having a legion of destructive monsters inside his head, all trying to take control? And all the destruction that those monsters left on their wake? And each time he wakes up in the middle of nowhere, not knowing what new disaster he had caused? Having to live on the run, unable to have any semblance of a normal life? With the military trying to kill him, dissect him, clone him and kill him again? He surely forgot to mention all those.
* By the way, Hulk CAN wear clothes while Hulked out, as Professor Hulk has proved time and again.
* Jen complains about the times she had been hit on during team-ups, but what about the times when SHE flirted with others?
* I don't need to google the Fantastic Four story, I had already read it some years ago. She does not mention that nobody told the printers that those were photos of a green woman, so they were "fixed" and published with the colors adjusted in studio. Meaning that, for the world, those were just XXX photos of a common woman, and nobody realized it was her.
* "Bruce got angry and went to Hulk-off some steam". Really? Turning into Hulk is an agony for Banner, not a relaxation exercise.
* "I'm out here saving the world". No, you're not fighting frost giants to save world, only to cope with your low self-esteem problems and "Hulk off some steam". The world being saved in the process is just a side consequence, but don't pretend you do it because of a desire to help others.

Man we need you to do Comic Book Sins. That was a great read. Should add a sin counter and punishment at the end just to top it off with a cherry.

Hate to go off topic, but there isn't a dedicated Avengers thread.

But, how long do we think Aaron will stay on Avengers? He will be done writing Thor in December (I'm assuming with the final issue of King Thor #4).

I wonder since Avengers is almost double shipping will he stay on until 50 or continue until 100?

Given that we’ve still gotta get the stories of 5 more of the Avengers BC and they come up once every few arcs, it seems it’s gonna be a while.

[Cville]

I enjoyed this issue.

[charliehustle415]

I enjoyed this issue.

As did I, maybe because I don't really have an attachment to She-Hulk. I thought it was good character development, but again, I know next to nothing about Jen; though, I do want to read Slott's run which I hear is amazing.

[Anthony W]

This is how a lot of people feel about Aaron's writing. He comes up with good ideas but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

It's almost like....he needs a good editor. I think we don't realize how important editors are.

[SuperiorIronman]

What in the Hell have I missed?
So Aaron instead of trying to convince jaded (pardon the unintentional joke) readers of his work with She-Hulk went out of his way to what I'm assuming is label all of his detractors trolls via Ulik? Seriously?

[Anthony W]

What in the Hell have I missed?
So Aaron instead of trying to convince jaded (pardon the unintentional joke) readers of his work with She-Hulk went out of his way to what I'm assuming is label all of his detractors trolls via Ulik? Seriously?

Yeah, it was bad.

[jwatson]

All this discussion has made me go back and read my Avengers v1 and i can definitely say Aaron was playing the long game here. Before she hulk even eat's the magical fruit hulk as if she is of sound mind to which hulk goes "just changed, still jennifer." but then it's not that hard to believe someone who just came the closet they ever did to death in she hulk form would be relishing being unstoppable and that would make her think about other points in her life now that she feels and knows she is.

[Immortal Hulk]

* As everybody is so focused on the She-Hulk controversy, nobody noticed Captain America on a winged horse. I did.
* There are dark elves in the cover, but not in the comic.
* The judge can not overrule an objection until the objection has been formulated.
* Savage She-Hulk is treated as the defendant, but she is later mentioned as a witness.
* Also, savage She-Hulk has no lawyer.
* Also, she is allowed in Court dressed like that.
* The judge in the dream sequence is plain Jennifer Walters, who overrules all objections of the savage She-Hulk, and grants permission to standard She-Hulk to "treat the witness as hostile". This would imply that she does not like this identity, which is refuted by the rest of the comic.
* Jen agrees with Black Panther that she does not want another outburst like the one in Russia. And then thinks "Do I?". Yes, you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing that Wakandan yoga.
* "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Except people did like me. A lot." However, she could turn into She-Hulk at will, and did not require anger to trigger it.
* She says she likes her new self because in the old days the trolls would make crass jokes even while she took them down, and now nobody's laughing. Except that they still do. See her fight with Ulik later.
* "Here's your official Avengers sitrep..." excuse me, did you say "official"? At the moment, the Avengers are not endorsed by the US nor the UN. They are as "official" as a friends gang in high school.
* If she makes such a big deal about not liking to be taken as a sex symbol, Jen shouldn't wear skintight gym clothes and give her back to the panel. You are giving contradictory messages, girl...
* "You just get to live in a celestial and have awesome friends like me". You left out "pleasant"!
* What does She-Hulk need a hammer for? Specially a hammer that breaks in pieces when used in a fight?
* The usual criticism to Aaron's Thor, voiced by the literal king of the trolls. Subtle.
* Also, why would Ulik possibly care who gets to be called "Thor"?
* Also, why would She-Hulk get so enraged by Ulik's remark? Does she even know the female Thor?
* Also, Thor (either one) is not there, why are they talking about that?
* After beating Ulik to a pulp, she thinks "The defense rests, ladies of the jury". Sorry, but the fight has not invalidated anything that standard She-Hulk said.
* Deadpool wastes a chance to ask "Why so serious?"
* Deadpool asks why did she stop being funny, and she says that she would rather be free to be ugly. One thing does not invalidate the other, as a Deadpool without mask can prove.
* Ka-Zar forgot to mention that the dinosaurs of the Savage Land were saved by aliens. The mass extinction did take place, and is not invalidated by those.
* So, Bruce once mentioned that when he hulked out he turned into an ugly monster who can't even get dressed, and envy that Jen could turn into an amazonian beauty. And Jen got offended because there are paparazzi following her, and that's so much worse. And having a legion of destructive monsters inside his head, all trying to take control? And all the destruction that those monsters left on their wake? And each time he wakes up in the middle of nowhere, not knowing what new disaster he had caused? Having to live on the run, unable to have any semblance of a normal life? With the military trying to kill him, dissect him, clone him and kill him again? He surely forgot to mention all those.
* By the way, Hulk CAN wear clothes while Hulked out, as Professor Hulk has proved time and again.
* Jen complains about the times she had been hit on during team-ups, but what about the times when SHE flirted with others?
* I don't need to google the Fantastic Four story, I had already read it some years ago. She does not mention that nobody told the printers that those were photos of a green woman, so they were "fixed" and published with the colors adjusted in studio. Meaning that, for the world, those were just XXX photos of a common woman, and nobody realized it was her.
* "Bruce got angry and went to Hulk-off some steam". Really? Turning into Hulk is an agony for Banner, not a relaxation exercise.
* "I'm out here saving the world". No, you're not fighting frost giants to save world, only to cope with your low self-esteem problems and "Hulk off some steam". The world being saved in the process is just a side consequence, but don't pretend you do it because of a desire to help others.

Just about perfect. Now wait until JKtheMac go on rant. LOL!

[Anthony W]

Just about perfect. Now wait until JKtheMac go on rant. LOL!

Kurolegacy said that this was almost like an episode of Cinemasins. Now I can't read that post without hearing "ding!" everytime Ultimate Captain America points out a flaw.

[lordozone]

Don't like this version of She-Hulk by Aaron, but i know that the Byrne version is so liked (by boys AND girls) that she will inevitably come-back.
it's not because a girl like to be sexy that she is not a feminist, the arguments are not very convincing.

But it's the vision of Jason Aaaron, and I respect it because I love his writing and maybe he needs to make She-Hulk this kind of character to tell his Avenger story... and because she is too much a carbon-copy of the Savage Hulk to last after his run...

His thinking is too simplistic. A prudish (and very American) vision of feminism who think that a woman who control her sexuality and like to be sexy is necessarily weak and a victim of patriarchy.

[jetengine]

Don't like this version of She-Hulk by Aaron, but i know that the Byrne version is so liked (by boys AND girls) that she will inevitably come-back.
it's not because a girl like to be sexy that she is not a feminist, the arguments are not very convincing.

But it's the vision of Jason Aaaron, and I respect it because I love his writing and maybe he needs to make She-Hulk this kind of character to tell his Avenger story... and because she is too much a carbon-copy of the Savage Hulk to last after his run...

His thinking is too simplistic. A prudish (and very American) vision of feminism who think that a woman who control her sexuality and like to be sexy is necessarily weak and a victim of patriarchy.

Exactly. Its this weird idea that to conquer the patriarchy you cannot enjoy being sexy in anyway. When femenism actually allows for both.

[comicfan298]

This issue confirms from the War Scroll story that Jen is having memory issues.