Avengers 20, we are at peak Aaron people!

[Subzero89]

I bet this video is smart stuff as well. Thanks for sharing.

I figured it has at least matched the level of "smart stuff" you've been putting out, like insulting a video from someone whose said video you didn't even watch but he must be an idiot because he has an opposite position to you, so i felt compelled to share, you're welcome.

[danielsan52]

I actually enjoyed it and love that Jen embraced her new look. Her powers is gamma radiated strength among other things. There is nothing beautiful about radiation and Aaron explained very well why She Hulk enjoys how she looks now and in depth. Jen still looks like Jenn so if she wants to look normal she just powers down. I'm glad she doesn't have to look like green T & A for folks to wank at. She still feels like she hulk to me but everyone else is now on notice. She doesn't have to joke to hid the insults and pain like so many heros do. Kudos Aaron.

Actually reminded me of Sharon Ventura. It would be nice to see her and Jen become close.

[Anthony W]

I think a lot people don't know how important it is to develop good reading skills.

Especially when they want to comment on writing and editing.

You okay, bruh? Folks, I think the Professor is broken.

[jwatson]

Anyway here are even better arguments from a long-term She-Hulk fan

https://twitter.com/DAIROCKETTO/stat...98110621814784

https://twitter.com/DAIROCKETTO/stat...02189842513921

Who doesn't even mention She-Hulks appearance btw just how horrible the characterization of the character is.

But i am sure he just isn't getting it either, we are all just not getting it, what are we not getting? Well it's hard to explain in words but it's important that we realize we are not getting it and that's the universal truth.

These don't even make any sense. I'm confused.

One is unhappy she's just like Bruce. But she isn't like Bruce, Jen's consciousness is at the forefront she just doesn't have full control of her speech. Bruce on the other hand has no control over what the Hulk does so that in of itself makes her unique from Banner Hulk. Not to mention her hulk was upgraded by a celestial for some upcoming war and her powerset is slightly different than Bruce's now. So again, what is the person complaining about exactly? Not really good examples.

[Frontier]

These don't even make any sense. I'm confused.

One is unhappy she's just like Bruce. But she isn't like Bruce, Jen's consciousness is at the forefront she just doesn't have full control of her speech. Bruce on the other hand has no control over what the Hulk does so that in of itself makes her unique from Banner Hulk. Not to mention her hulk was upgraded by a celestial for some upcoming war and her powerset is slightly different than Bruce's now. So again, what is the person complaining about exactly? Not really good examples.

Jen's consciousness is at the forefront but in practice she doesn't really act all that different from Bruce as Savage Hulk, particularly how he was when he was on The Avengers.

Her powerset is also supposedly different from Bruce but I don't think that's been displayed very much.

[Subzero89]

These don't even make any sense. I'm confused.

One is unhappy she's just like Bruce. But she isn't like Bruce, Jen's consciousness is at the forefront she just doesn't have full control of her speech. Bruce on the other hand has no control over what the Hulk does so that in of itself makes her unique from Banner Hulk. Not to mention her hulk was upgraded by a celestial for some upcoming war and her powerset is slightly different than Bruce's now. So again, what is the person complaining about exactly? Not really good examples.

They make perfect sense, especially for a long term She-Hulk fan.

She is very much like Bruce in the way Aaron suggests, she literally develops a dumbed down personality now when she transforms. It doesn't even matter because it comes off as a completely distinct personality so even if it's not exactly like Bruce, it's way similar to him, way more similar than ever before(and actually it's not true that she doesn't develop a new personality it was revealed that she does have a dumbed down Hulk persona inside her). Bruce has had many incarnations, some where he is in control, some where he isn't but is still aware of whats going on and some where he he has no clue and is not aware of whats going on and everything in between. So Jen is in no way unique to Bruce in any way in fact Aaron tried his best to make her another copy of Bruce, she was far more unique as the Sensational She-Hulk who was smart, funny, 4th wall breaking and used her She-Hulk self as a confidence booster not as something that makes her feel ugly which is a good thing apparently lol. Her powerset is an upgrade of an already forgotten and glanced over plot point and her powerset is only different to Bruce as in that she generates heat the way Red Hulk and Red She-Hulk did so again, not unique for herself. That person problems are way more than the 1 point you focused on but let me give you a rundown

1. Aaron projecting, when Jen is beating up literal trolls.

2. Acting like he made her some super unique character while stripping her of most of what made her unique in the first place(as in made her pre-super Broly)

3. She has to control her anger now like Hulk does yet Aaron acts like this is some profound/unique thing.

4. I will just copy paste this "it's really frustrating when someone misses the point of such a good character jen already felt "free" as because even though she was attractive, her power meant people had to meet her on her own terms and being well-adjusted compared to bruce gave her more control over herself"

5. and this "hulkness is just as much psychological as it is weird science. for banner it's an outlet for trauama and anger, for jen it serves to give her the confidence and control over her life she was missing before"

6. And finally, Al Ewing already understood Jen better and did her character better with a single page than Aaron did with an entire comic

D-BS60xUYAAlKoh.jpg

Hope you are not as confused now, although i am sure Aaron is infallible so all of these points are pointless probably...

[Prof. Warren]

You okay, bruh? Folks, I think the Professor is broken.

No, I just find it endlessly amusing when a guy who complains about "faux wokeness" and has the dog from Family Guy as his avatar thinks he can coach professional writers and editors on their jobs.

[Prof. Warren]

So Jen is in no way unique to Bruce in any way in fact Aaron tried his best to make her another copy of Bruce, she was far more unique as the Sensational She-Hulk who was smart, funny, 4th wall breaking and used her She-Hulk self as a confidence booster not as something that makes her feel ugly which is a good thing apparently lol.

Jen is not a copy of Bruce. Unless Bruce has also been sexually harassed.

Jen's previous incarnation reflects a time when a strong female had to be presented in a lighter, less-threatening manner.

She was the friendly, fun Hulk - in part because that was considered more palatable. Aaron is taking stock of that portrayal and looking deeper into it.

Her powerset is an upgrade of an already forgotten and glanced over plot point and her powerset is only different to Bruce as in that she generates heat the way Red Hulk and Red She-Hulk did so again, not unique for herself.

Aaron refers to her upgrade in this issue and a specific point is made about how it will be important in the future. So it's neither forgotten nor glanced over.

[Frontier]

Jen is not a copy of Bruce. Unless Bruce has also been sexually harassed.

Jen's previous incarnation reflects a time when a strong female had to be presented in a lighter, less-threatening manner.

She was the friendly, fun Hulk - in part because that was considered more palatable. Aaron is taking stock of that portrayal and looking deeper into it.

I don't know if it was to be more palatable but to better differentiate her from Bruce and because it fit her personality.

It wasn't that, as a strong female, she had to be lighter and less-threatening, it was that she was light and fun while still being able to out bench-press and beat most guys.

I don't think people would have jumped onto She-Hulk as much if she was, from inception, how Aaron was depicting her. Especially when the differentials with the actual Hulk are much more minuscule. Certainly her entire and fondly remembered history would be very different.

[Prof. Warren]

I don't know if it was to be more palatable but to better differentiate her from Bruce and because it fit her personality.

Her personality, of course, was in part determined by the times and what audiences would accept in a female hero.

It wasn't that, as a strong female, she had to be lighter and less-threatening, it was that she was light and fun while still being able to out bench-press and beat most guys.

Point being, Jen's persona as She-Hulk was created to be more "lady like" and less aggressive. Too much aggressiveness in a woman was once thought to be unacceptable - or at least unappealing.

I don't think people would have jumped onto She-Hulk as much if she was, from inception, how Aaron was depicting her. Especially when the differentials with the actual Hulk are much more minuscule. Certainly her entire and fondly remembered history would be very different.

She couldn't have been this way from inception because it's that prior history that makes her current status possible.

[Tracks]

I was referring to the specific post, not the 18 or so pages of argumen0t that nobody in their right mind is going to read through to get up to date on what is still a developing debate. And as somebody who backed out of Aaron's Avengers long ago, doesn't have a horse in either the She-Hulk or Thor thing, nor being able to be bothered to pick up a single issue of WOTR and even a tie-in, I am more than a little lost in this whole thing. Just making the case of "you just suck at reading" is not an argumentative position outside of just being argumentative.

What you posted is a position to get behind, what Warren did is not. Explaining the stance is more important in getting people up to speed than just saying "you suck" or "oh you just don't get it". They can't get it (or even just me) if we continue to act like children.

Isn't this a bad point on your point? If someone backs up their conclusion with several pages of argument and concludes that the person "can't read" how does it make sense to respond to their conclusion without engaging the bulk of their argument?

[Ultimate Captain America]

Man we need you to do Comic Book Sins. That was a great read. Should add a sin counter and punishment at the end just to top it off with a cherry.

Comic sin tally: 28.

Sentence: Indefinite interim work at Goodman, Lieber, Kurtzberg & Holliway

[Frontier]

Her personality, of course, was in part determined by the times and what audiences would accept in a female hero.

I mean, I think Jen stood out pretty well even from the kind of female heroes there were back then. Obviously they were informed by the times but, comparatively, she came off fairly progressive and modern compared to other female heroes. And arguably aged the best.

Point being, Jen's persona as She-Hulk was created to be more "lady like" and less aggressive. Too much aggressiveness in a woman was once thought to be unacceptable - or at least unappealing.

I mean, lady like in terms of still being fairly feminine and less aggressive then the Hulk but she wasn't Silver Age Wasp or Invisible Girl. She still got in brawls and socked villains as well as the boys did. It didn't stop her from being "the muscle" of the teams she was on.

She couldn't have been this way from inception because it's that prior history that makes her current status possible.

By downplaying or missing the point of it entirely.

[Subzero89]

Jen is not a copy of Bruce. Unless Bruce has also been sexually harassed.

Now that you mention it

RCO020.jpg

Did you presume that sexual harassment is something that can only happen to women? I can actually do you one even better if you want, there is a comic from the 80's where Bruce was literally almost raped by a couple of dudes

RCO010_1466477525.jpg

Yea, i for one am shocked Aaron didn't know about this, shocked i tell you!

Jen's previous incarnation reflects a time when a strong female had to be presented in a lighter, less-threatening manner.

I would agree with you there, but you see the problem here would be that if all Jen remained was some kind of eye-candy female version of the Hulk, but that was clearly not the case, she quickly developed into her own unique character and writers like Byrne and Slott did amazing stuff with her, so Aaron is about 40 years too late trying to "re-define" an already defined character.

She was the friendly, fun Hulk - in part because that was considered more palatable. Aaron is taking stock of that portrayal and looking deeper into it.

After she was developed more, she didn't start of fun and friendly btw, she was savage like actual Hulk, until they gave her more character because we already had a savage Hulk and please... in this issue Aaron goes about as deep with her character as a palette. All he did was regress the character.

Aaron refers to her upgrade in this issue and a specific point is made about how it will be important in the future. So it's neither forgotten nor glanced over.

Yes and i am sure it will totally pay off and we are actually going to get an explanation as to why the Celestial gave her that power in the first place, 100%.

[Prof. Warren]

By downplaying or missing the point of it entirely.

He is neither downplaying it nor "missing the point."

Quite the opposite. While many fans just want to continue to regard Jen's past history at face value, Aaron is instead looking to ask questions and probe a little deeper.