Kindred Speculation

[Jman27]

After all of the Decade worth of hate due to Dan Slott and OMD/BND, coupled with the positive opinion of Spencer, does anyone think Spencer wants to spoil the positive opinion of his work by making Uncle Ben, Captain Stacy or Gwen Kindred? I will say "No Way Jose."

yeah but with all that hate to my knowledge didn't change anything I don't think there is a decline in Spider-man and like you said its been a decade and they still havent correct it
but if Spencer isnt going to do it. Its only a matter of time before someone else does everyone else has been brought back he doesn't seem safe anymore

[tv horror]

I've not read any Spider-man comics since 700 but would hazard a guess that Kindred is the Gray Goblin Gabriel he has the history and connection to Peter's life.

[NC_Yankee]

I've not read any Spider-man comics since 700 but would hazard a guess that Kindred is the Gray Goblin Gabriel he has the history and connection to Peter's life.

I would actually like Gabriel as Kindred.... Especially if Ghost Gwen ends up saving Pete or MJ from death on the bridge.

[Vortex85]

I don't see who else it could be besides Ezekiel. He is the only one who makes sense to me.

1. He would be ok with killing.
2. He called himself and Peter "Kindred Spirits" back in one of his first appearances.
3. He, like Kindred, has the ability to stick to walls.
4. He died in bandages and was dead at the same time as Mysterio.
5. He would have an interest in all the other Spiders (as fellow totems) in the Spider verse so he would refer to them as "friends."
6. He knows and likes MJ.
7. He once hired Felicia so he is familliar with her.
8. He would have a grudge against Peter freeing Cindy Moon and causing the Spider verse. So revealing himself in front of all the other Spiders would make perfect sense in his plan for revenge.
9. He would have encoutered people like Kingpin and Norman in business affairs.
10. He has ties back to Peter's origin so the line about just him and Peter together "since the beginning" would make sense to him.

The only thing is I don't know why its all this buildup if it's just him unless there is some other reveal that happens that is even bigger when his identity is revealed.

[Inversed]

I don't see who else it could be besides Ezekiel. He is the only one who makes sense to me.

1. He would be ok with killing.
2. He called himself and Peter "Kindred Spirits" back in one of his first appearances.
3. He, like Kindred, has the ability to stick to walls.
4. He died in bandages and was dead at the same time as Mysterio.
5. He would have an interest in all the other Spiders (as fellow totems) in the Spider verse so he would refer to them as "friends."
6. He knows and likes MJ.
7. He once hired Felicia so he is familliar with her.
8. He would have a grudge against Peter freeing Cindy Moon and causing the Spider verse. So revealing himself in front of all the other Spiders would make perfect sense in his plan for revenge.
9. He would have encoutered people like Kingpin and Norman in business affairs.
10. He has ties back to Peter's origin so the line about just him and Peter together "since the beginning" would make sense to him.

The only thing is I don't know why its all this buildup if it's just him unless there is some other reveal that happens that is even bigger when his identity is revealed.

The only issue with Ezekiel is the death timeline.

Mysterio dies in (reader time) 1999, and Ezekiel makes his first appearance in 2001. Ezekiel then dies in 2004, and Mysterio is resurrected in 2006. So unless Ezekiel was a demon the whole time, and went back and forth through the living and dead, it wouldn't fit since Kindred was already in hell before Mysterio died.

One other thing I think we should consider as a possibility, even if we don't have as specific connections to the clues, is Spencer's love for C and D list villains. He's shown great use and taking advantage of them in pretty much all of his works, so it wouldn't be a surprise to see him find an obscure one and have that be the big boss. That's why I wouldn't completely rule out guesses like Jason Macendale or Spidercide I've seen going around, since they're pretty oddball and obscure enough to fit.

[Vortex85]

The only issue with Ezekiel is the death timeline.

Mysterio dies in (reader time) 1999, and Ezekiel makes his first appearance in 2001. Ezekiel then dies in 2004, and Mysterio is resurrected in 2006. So unless Ezekiel was a demon the whole time, and went back and forth through the living and dead, it wouldn't fit since Kindred was already in hell before Mysterio died.

One other thing I think we should consider as a possibility, even if we don't have as specific connections to the clues, is Spencer's love for C and D list villains. He's shown great use and taking advantage of them in pretty much all of his works, so it wouldn't be a surprise to see him find an obscure one and have that be the big boss. That's why I wouldn't completely rule out guesses like Jason Macendale or Spidercide I've seen going around, since they're pretty oddball and obscure enough to fit.

Where does it say Kindred was already in hell before Myserio died? I don't recall reading that anywhere.

[WebSlingWonder]

Where does it say Kindred was already in hell before Myserio died? I don't recall reading that anywhere.

In issue #24, Mysterio recounts his time in Hell as the legends said that Kindred was a man who rose through the ranks and tortured Mysterio for a long time. That means that he already was in Hell long before Beck went there.

[Vortex85]

In issue #24, Mysterio recounts his time in Hell as the legends said that Kindred was a man who rose through the ranks and tortured Mysterio for a long time. That means that he already was in Hell long before Beck went there.

What page? I literally do not read that.

I only see the panel:

"In the notes of the seessions with your previous therapist, you told him you believe you went to hell when you died.
And that while you were there, you were tortured endlessly by a man--another prisoner of hell who had become a demon himself. A man named--"

To me that above statement does not necessarily mean the tormenter had to have been in hell before Mysterio. It could also mean that Mysterio was in hell before his tormentor showed up and began to torment him.

It just says "while he was there." No where does it say a by someone who was already there before he arrived. "Endlessly" here is not true because we know his torment ended... it may have just felt endless and constant once it started because thats how hell feels and is described. His tormetor could have arrived in hell after Mysterio, then rose the ranks to become a demon, and then started "endlessly" tormenting Mysterio.

[WebSlingWonder]

What page? I literally do not read that.

I only see the panel:

"In the notes of the seessions with your previous therapist, you told him you believe you went to hell when you died.
And that while you were there, you were tortured endlessly by a man--another prisoner of hell who had become a demon himself. A man named--"

To me that above statement does not necessarily mean the tormenter had to have been in hell before Mysterio. It could also mean that Mysterio was in hell before his tormentor showed up and began to torment him.

It just sys "while he was there." No where does it say a by someone who was already there before he arrived. "Endlessly" here is not true because we know his torment ended... it may have just felt endless and constant once it started because thats how hell feels and is described. It doesn't mean the tormetor was there before he arrived.

It's right there, dude. He rose through the ranks and became a demon himself. That's what the issue says. And then he began to torture Mysterio. I don't think he would show up, rise through the ranks immediately, and then torture a random supervillain. This dude was already there and knew Mysterio was on the way. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense.

[Vortex85]

It's right there, dude. He rose through the ranks and became a demon himself. That's what the issue says. And then he began to torture Mysterio. I don't think he would show up, rise through the ranks immediately, and then torture a random supervillain. This dude was already there and knew Mysterio was on the way. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense.

I don't read it that way.

Just because he rose the ranks of hell does not mean that happened before Mysterio arrived. It could have happened quickly or a long time. Time in hell doesn't work like the real world. A day here could feel like a century there.

It doesn't say he was already there waiting for Mysterio, those are your words, not the text.

[Vortex85]

Also, we don't know the details of why or how he rose the ranks of hell. It could have been on purpose or assisted by a benefactor. It may have been easy or hard for him. He seems to want revenge on Peter.

He could have arrive in hell and learned that Mysterio was already there, and he had to rise the ranks to become a demon so that he could start to torment and make Mysterio his servant and use him to get revenge on Peter once he escaped.

[Lukmendes]

I'd rule Harry out. Spencer spent a lot of time and effort trying to restore DeMatteis' character beats from KLH and SOUL OF THE HUNTER in a post GRIM HUNT landscape, so no way does he undermine Harry sacrificing himself and making peace with Peter.

I'm going to say it's Ned, because

A) Spencer's a huge fan of KLH, and Ned's death kicked off Peter's nightmarish struggle with his own mortality
B) Ned wasn't exactly on great terms with Peter at the time of his death
C) Ned's a crime reporter, meaning he'd have dirt on Kingpin and the kind of extortion skillset that might help him work his way up the food chain in hell
D) Ned could have discovered Peter's true identity before he died, thus causing him to blame Peter for not saving him
E) Peter was Betty's first love, flirted with the possibility of a romantic relationship with her during her marriage to Ned, and ultimately found happiness with MJ right after Ned died. So yeah, plenty of reason to be obsessed with the couple that got what he never did. Which also makes one wonder...

What if Ned/Kindred was actually behind OMD? I mean, was it really worth Mephisto's time, or did Kindred call in a favor with the big guy...

Well, I did theorize that Kindred could be used as a way to restore Harry to pre-OMD status, that being, dead.

Ned is lacking connections with Norman, him caring about MJ would be odd too, also, I don't think Ned and Peter were really close, think in Spider-Man vs Wolverine has a scene where Ned is talking like he's just now really getting to know Peter, or was it when we got the "reveal" that Ned is Hobgoblin? Either way, point is that Kindred talks about Peter like he knows him, and even claims in his first appearance that "he knows Pete better than he knows himself", but I guess that could be excused as hell having good **** to be a stalker.

We can slot (heh) the latter down to the clone technology making an error and mistake and so on, or that the technology revived the Gwenclone who I believe died in Spider-Island and not OG Gwen.

Couldn't be her, Gwen clone's last memories from before Clone Conspiracy is her death when being bridged.

I don't believe for a second any of the figures in clone conspiracy are the real deal, and that whole soul crap mumbo-jumbo just can't be true. That also applies to Billy...I don't think the Billy Connors in Spencer's run is the same kid from before SHED. I think it's a clone with synthetic memories, and included among those memories is the knowledge that the Lizard ate the original Billy. The clone has been repressing that but it's there all along inside him.

Well, Dr. Strange claims Billy is the real deal, and even if you argue that Stephen wouldn't be one to know souls, we have Death herself confirming that not only does Ben have his own soul, it was the same one to the point it got resurrected 27 times, Marvel has been weirdly consistent with this point.

Gwen Stacy had a pretty nasty and violent streak and she notably allied with a right-wing authoritarian DA who was more or less offering to give her Spider-Man dead on a silver platter.

Which also happened right after her father had died and she was grieving, and she wanted the man who she thinks killed her father to pay, which doesn't translate into "torture a criminal and kill an innocent", maybe the first one, but not the second one.

Both Red Hood and Winter Soldier were introduced as antagonistic figures before developing into anti-heroes so maybe something like that can happen with the hypothetical Kindred-Gwen, who knows.

Jason already had a nasty streak before returning as Red Hood, and he had understandable motivations for becoming even more violent, Bucky is an outright retcon which ignores previous characterization, so arguably him becoming gritty is character assassination too, it's just that it was well done and fans accepted it.

There's definitely a problem if teen sidekicks with jokey reputations like Bucky and Jason come back from the dead all grizzled and gritty, but women stuffed in fridge cannot.

Hey, if Gwen-Kindred were to happen, then I'd be okay with it if it's well done, just that regardless it's gonna be really changing who the character is, and I'll think that even if I like it.

I am fully aware that my theory could be wrong and any theory offered by anyone else could be right. All that matters is how Spencer pulls it off. Execution can still surprise and have an effect even among the audience that guesses or sees it coming. So it wouldn't bother me if Kindred is someone else, or if it turns out it's who you say it is.

Well execution really more important that anything else, but I'll be pissed if my dumb joke turns out to be right, 'cause I really hate making dumb jokes and they end up happening for real lol.

I don't see who else it could be besides Ezekiel. He is the only one who makes sense to me.

1. He would be ok with killing.
2. He called himself and Peter "Kindred Spirits" back in one of his first appearances.
3. He, like Kindred, has the ability to stick to walls.
4. He died in bandages and was dead at the same time as Mysterio.
5. He would have an interest in all the other Spiders (as fellow totems) in the Spider verse so he would refer to them as "friends."
6. He knows and likes MJ.
7. He once hired Felicia so he is familliar with her.
8. He would have a grudge against Peter freeing Cindy Moon and causing the Spider verse. So revealing himself in front of all the other Spiders would make perfect sense in his plan for revenge.
9. He would have encoutered people like Kingpin and Norman in business affairs.
10. He has ties back to Peter's origin so the line about just him and Peter together "since the beginning" would make sense to him.

The only thing is I don't know why its all this buildup if it's just him unless there is some other reveal that happens that is even bigger when his identity is revealed.

Honestly, by your theory, only thing Ezekiel lacks right now is a connection with Norman, which in case he is Kindred, it'll be retconned in.

Also wouldn't put much weight in wall crawling, Kindred has vague powers, he could be able to do it without being related to a spider.

Also, thinking of it, ASM#1 has Kindred being impatient because Mysterio hasn't done anything to Spidey, saying his patience was running thin, and Mysterio says "I'm wearing him down slowy", so it sounds like Kindred has Mysterio to go after Spidey for at least a long time, and at most, since he was resurrected, and if it's the second one, then it'd be odd if it was Ezekiel, because by that point, Spider-Verse hadn't happened yet, so Ezekiel wouldn't have any reason to want to kill Spidey.

It's right there, dude. He rose through the ranks and became a demon himself. That's what the issue says. And then he began to torture Mysterio. I don't think he would show up, rise through the ranks immediately, and then torture a random supervillain. This dude was already there and knew Mysterio was on the way. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense.

The way the sentence is worded is vague, it does sound like Kindred became a demon first, then tortured Mysterio, but the length of time Mysterio was tortured isn't mentioned, and nothing even hints Kindred was waiting for him, if we go by what he says in ASM#1, he chose Mysterio because he knows how to "set the stage".

[Vortex85]

Also, thinking of it, ASM#1 has Kindred being impatient because Mysterio hasn't done anything to Spidey, saying his patience was running thin, and Mysterio says "I'm wearing him down slowy", so it sounds like Kindred has Mysterio to go after Spidey for at least a long time, and at most, since he was resurrected, and if it's the second one, then it'd be odd if it was Ezekiel, because by that point, Spider-Verse hadn't happened yet, so Ezekiel wouldn't have any reason to want to kill Spidey.

Ah, yeah thats a good point I missed. Spider-Verse didn't happen until a while after Mysterio was ressurected. In that case, if Kindred was Ezekiel, torturing Mysterio and pulling him out of hell would not have anything to do with Peter causing Spider-Verse since it hadn't happened yet. But Ezekiel could have had had other plans originally, and then once Spider-Verse happened he redirected his focus and decided to use Mysterio differently to go after Peter. It has been a while since the orignal Spider-Verse so even if it started then, you could still easily see his patience running thin by now.

[Lukmendes]

Ah, yeah thats a good point I missed. Spider-Verse didn't happen until a while after Mysterio was ressurected. In that case, if Kindred was Ezekiel, torturing Mysterio and pulling him out of hell would not have anything to do with Peter causing Spider-Verse since it hadn't happened yet. But Ezekiel could have had had other plans originally, and then once Spider-Verse happened he redirected his focus and decided to use Mysterio differently to go after Peter. It has been a while since the orignal Spider-Verse so even if it started then, you could still easily see his patience running thin by now.

Yeah, specialy since it's been at the very, very, very least, 8 months since Spider-Verse and Spencer's run begins, so enough time would have passed for him to lose his patience.

Y'know, even if it turns out to not be Ezekiel, he's honestly the most fun one to think on the what are his motivations, I'm imagining now that he resurrected Mysterio to help keep Peter strong as the Spider-Totem, but then Spider-Verse happens and he gets pissed.

[Russ840]

Some nice meat to chew on regarding Kindred in this weeks ASM 30.