Kindred Speculation

[Lukmendes]

At this point, doesn't Kindred have to be Harry, Gwen, Flash or Uncle Ben?

Kindred has intimate details of Peter's life and has been hitting on the early-college years being important. I was hoping it was going to be a Spider-clone (kind of a least-worst option thing), but it's looking increasingly unlikely.

Actually, it would be awesome if it were the original Normal Osborn and the one from the clone saga was actually a clone.

Flash doesn't make sense because he died way after Mysterio was already resurrected, whoever Kindred is, needs to have died before Mysterio came back.

Uncle Ben, you'd need retcons to establish that he has a connection with Norman, even then, there's Norman talking with Kindred and he says that Kindred is part of Norman's legacy, and that he's proud of Kindred, there are few characters who fit this, Harry (And Norman would need to suddenly be proud of him) and Gwen (Not proud of her as a person, he's proud of having killed her to make Spidey suffer), maybe there's someone else, but those two are the most obvious.

Honestly, after ASM#31, I stopped believing it could be Harry, it was too obvious, I mildly considered Gwen, but I just wasn't sure, mostly because Kindred is showing a lot of hatred for Peter, and Gwen loved Peter, but hated Spider-Man, it's hard to say which one between love and hate would triumph if she learned his secret identity (And Gwen's clone from Clone Conspiracy showed it was love), but I was thinking that she wouldn't become someone who's killing innocents even when hating Peter, but with Gwen getting a mini now, maybe they did that simply because she's one of Spidey's 3 big love interests, and Felicia and MJ got it, so maybe it's her turn just because, or maybe it's because of Spider-Gwen, or both, but I'm seriously considering that this mini is going to be a stealth prequel to explain how she becomes Kindred, either that or the timing of this is a huge coincidence lol.

[Hugo Strange]

I mildly considered Gwen, but I just wasn't sure, mostly because Kindred is showing a lot of hatred for Peter, and Gwen loved Peter, but hated Spider-Man, it's hard to say which one between love and hate would triumph if she learned his secret identity (And Gwen's clone from Clone Conspiracy showed it was love)

She died feeling betrayed according to Gwen's clone.

[SuperiorIronman]

The Gwen mini should absolutely not be a prequel.

It strings the reader on all this time for us to get answers in as far as we'd be aware an unrelated book? ASM double ships, there's no reason it shouldn't have enough time to explain who Kindred is in the main title. Tie-ins should be extra information, not required reading. And if it's explained in ASM if Gwen is Kindred, what do we honestly need a mini series for? And even then not everybody has the income to support yet another book if Gwen is cashing in on the information being laid out there. Which is also the other problem being that it conflicts with the Gwen they want to sell. Not everybody is aware of comic history or knows to check the database (nor is the database always accurate *see Spider-man 2099 and Doctor Octopus). So somebody who is interested in Gwen only to find out they're an unrelated entity might ignore Spider-Gwen not knowing any better. Why pick up a book if as far as you know it's nothing like you had been told?

If this really is the case it feels cheap and a blatant marketing gimmick because the mystery couldn't be assed to be anything less than vague. All this time and we're still no closer to finding out who Kindred is.

[Inversed]

I feel like whoever it ends up being, with Harry and Gwen being most obvious choices (still mostly leaning towards Harry personally), I don't think it's going to be as simple as it just being them completely.

My theory is, in reference to the first arc of this run, in which we saw Peter and Spider-Man as split into two different entities, Kindred will be the other half of said person. That's how you get through Harry being around since BND, and the Gwen from Clone Conspiracy (which we know is the original soul of her). They would technically still be the originals, just the "good halves", like Peter was, while Kindred is the negatively emotional piece of soul remaining of either Harry or Gwen (Harry you could say it's his Goblin persona taken form, while Gwen could be all of her pent up hate and anger taken physical manifestation).

The reason I still think Harry is the most likely is that his conversation with Osborn just seems to fit slightly more towards Harry's personal feelings and beliefs than Gwen's (not to mention Harry's just odd disappearance despite the supposed importance of his son in that story). Also, as Back To Basics shown with Kraven, sometimes an obvious foreshadowing turns out to be exactly what we think.

[NC_Yankee]

I feel like whoever it ends up being, with Harry and Gwen being most obvious choices (still mostly leaning towards Harry personally), I don't think it's going to be as simple as it just being them completely.

My theory is, in reference to the first arc of this run, in which we saw Peter and Spider-Man as split into two different entities, Kindred will be the other half of said person. That's how you get through Harry being around since BND, and the Gwen from Clone Conspiracy (which we know is the original soul of her). They would technically still be the originals, just the "good halves", like Peter was, while Kindred is the negatively emotional piece of soul remaining of either Harry or Gwen (Harry you could say it's his Goblin persona taken form, while Gwen could be all of her pent up hate and anger taken physical manifestation).

The reason I still think Harry is the most likely is that his conversation with Osborn just seems to fit slightly more towards Harry's personal feelings and beliefs than Gwen's (not to mention Harry's just odd disappearance despite the supposed importance of his son in that story). Also, as Back To Basics shown with Kraven, sometimes an obvious foreshadowing turns out to be exactly what we think.

Keep in mind Gwen has no love for Norm ( ASM 121 and as much as I hate to reference it Sins Past). Maybe the best hint for a Stacy ( not necessarily Gwen) is the ASM 91 reference in the Mysterio movie. That incident has nothing to do with Harry, Flash or even Mysterio. Only the Stacy's, Doc Ock and Pete.

[Lukmendes]

She died feeling betrayed according to Gwen's clone.

Yeah, but in the same page she says she still loves Peter.

The Gwen mini should absolutely not be a prequel.

It strings the reader on all this time for us to get answers in as far as we'd be aware an unrelated book? ASM double ships, there's no reason it shouldn't have enough time to explain who Kindred is in the main title. Tie-ins should be extra information, not required reading. And if it's explained in ASM if Gwen is Kindred, what do we honestly need a mini series for?

It could be done to explain better who Gwen is for all the people who actually don't know her, so for example, ASM could do a basic explanation, while her mini goes further.

And even then not everybody has the income to support yet another book if Gwen is cashing in on the information being laid out there.

That's true.

Which is also the other problem being that it conflicts with the Gwen they want to sell. Not everybody is aware of comic history or knows to check the database (nor is the database always accurate *see Spider-man 2099 and Doctor Octopus).

Yeah, sure the wiki is inaccurate about Miguel, but I don't see how they are about Otto, last I checked, they're actually saying that Otto's clone is not the original Otto, unless they changed that?

So somebody who is interested in Gwen only to find out they're an unrelated entity might ignore Spider-Gwen not knowing any better. Why pick up a book if as far as you know it's nothing like you had been told?

To be fair, Marvel did the exact same thing with the current Adjectiveless Spider-Man, and yeah, it's failing partially because of it, but Marvel can be really stubborn with the bullshit they may try to pull lol.

But honestly, if the mini ends up being a stealth prequel about Kindred's identity, with her being Kindred, they should do it right, make it so all it does is show who Gwen's character is and end it without revealing she's Kindred, but done in a way that if you read her mini, then they reveal she's Kindred, then a reader can think "Oh that makes sense!" or something like that.

If this really is the case it feels cheap and a blatant marketing gimmick because the mystery couldn't be assed to be anything less than vague. All this time and we're still no closer to finding out who Kindred is.

I mean, the more prominent Kindred becomes, the more hints they give, since ASM#24 reveals he was once a human and is a man, ASM#30 reveals he knows Norman, and then ASM#31 reveals Norman recognizes him, and is proud of him and that he's part of Norman's legacy, it's why Gwen and Harry are such strong contenders to be Kindred now, though they'd have to explain the man thing if it's Gwen lol.

I feel like whoever it ends up being, with Harry and Gwen being most obvious choices (still mostly leaning towards Harry personally), I don't think it's going to be as simple as it just being them completely.

My theory is, in reference to the first arc of this run, in which we saw Peter and Spider-Man as split into two different entities, Kindred will be the other half of said person. That's how you get through Harry being around since BND, and the Gwen from Clone Conspiracy (which we know is the original soul of her).

We don't actually know if the clone Gwen has Gwen's soul, the possibility of Gwen being Kindred means that Gwen was probably around since Mysterio came back in PAD's Friendly Neighborhood run.

Just sayin' 'cause it's worth keeping in mind, Gwen was never actually confirmed, only Ben and Billy were, and while everyone else who got resurrected because of cloning could have the same souls as the originals like Ben and Billy since it's a very likely headcanon, Gwen having this possibility of being Kindred just makes the clone having her soul to be more doubtful than the rest.

It's possible both ways are being done though, maybe the Gwen clone has Gwen's soul, and she is Kindred, she just resurrected Mysterio but couldn't come to Earth herself, and the cloning made her manage to do it, so she pretended to die and chose to torment Peter during Spencer's run.

The reason I still think Harry is the most likely is that his conversation with Osborn just seems to fit slightly more towards Harry's personal feelings and beliefs than Gwen's (not to mention Harry's just odd disappearance despite the supposed importance of his son in that story). Also, as Back To Basics shown with Kraven, sometimes an obvious foreshadowing turns out to be exactly what we think.

Yeah, that's true, but it doesn't mean Spencer is repeating himself by making "the obvious being the answer" twice, Harry is still very likely though.

Keep in mind Gwen has no love for Norm ( ASM 121 and as much as I hate to reference it Sins Past). Maybe the best hint for a Stacy ( not necessarily Gwen) is the ASM 91 reference in the Mysterio movie. That incident has nothing to do with Harry, Flash or even Mysterio. Only the Stacy's, Doc Ock and Pete.

Mysterio's movie is actually referencing ASM#121, that actor is saying that "the captain's daughter" is dead.

Of course, there's also the scene with MJ fighting Otto, and that could be a reference to ASM#89/#90, but Kraven is in the same fight scene, and he wasn't involved in George's death, so it looks like they just included villains just because.

[NC_Yankee]

Yeah, but in the same page she says she still loves Peter.



It could be done to explain better who Gwen is for all the people who actually don't know her, so for example, ASM could do a basic explanation, while her mini goes further.



That's true.



Yeah, sure the wiki is inaccurate about Miguel, but I don't see how they are about Otto, last I checked, they're actually saying that Otto's clone is not the original Otto, unless they changed that?



To be fair, Marvel did the exact same thing with the current Adjectiveless Spider-Man, and yeah, it's failing partially because of it, but Marvel can be really stubborn with the bullshit they may try to pull lol.

But honestly, if the mini ends up being a stealth prequel about Kindred's identity, with her being Kindred, they should do it right, make it so all it does is show who Gwen's character is and end it without revealing she's Kindred, but done in a way that if you read her mini, then they reveal she's Kindred, then a reader can think "Oh that makes sense!" or something like that.



I mean, the more prominent Kindred becomes, the more hints they give, since ASM#24 reveals he was once a human and is a man, ASM#30 reveals he knows Norman, and then ASM#31 reveals Norman recognizes him, and is proud of him and that he's part of Norman's legacy, it's why Gwen and Harry are such strong contenders to be Kindred now, though they'd have to explain the man thing if it's Gwen lol.



We don't actually know if the clone Gwen has Gwen's soul, the possibility of Gwen being Kindred means that Gwen was probably around since Mysterio came back in PAD's Friendly Neighborhood run.

Just sayin' 'cause it's worth keeping in mind, Gwen was never actually confirmed, only Ben and Billy were, and while everyone else who got resurrected because of cloning could have the same souls as the originals like Ben and Billy since it's a very likely headcanon, Gwen having this possibility of being Kindred just makes the clone having her soul to be more doubtful than the rest.

It's possible both ways are being done though, maybe the Gwen clone has Gwen's soul, and she is Kindred, she just resurrected Mysterio but couldn't come to Earth herself, and the cloning made her manage to do it, so she pretended to die and chose to torment Peter during Spencer's run.



Yeah, that's true, but it doesn't mean Spencer is repeating himself by making "the obvious being the answer" twice, Harry is still very likely though.



Mysterio's movie is actually referencing ASM#121, that actor is saying that "the captain's daughter" is dead.

Of course, there's also the scene with MJ fighting Otto, and that could be a reference to ASM#89/#90, but Kraven is in the same fight scene, and he wasn't involved in George's death, so it looks like they just included villains just because.

The point I mentioned is still valid. If the movie is referencing ASM 121 and (or) ASM 91, it still refers to the death of a Stacy, and neither has anything to do with Mysterio, Harry or Flash. My Kindred prediction has been a Stacy and Arthur being my primary suspect, because he is male. I will say that as far as I know, Gwen never did anything so bad that she deserved to go to Hell. Does it make her perfect? No her treatment of Aunt May was awful (Sam Bullet and being against Spider-Man can be excused because she was upset at her dad's death). The only way I see it being her is if the Gwen Story shows her doing something bad we are unaware of ( sort of like what was done in Sins Past) but having her as a murderer or something.

[Lukmendes]

The point I mentioned is still valid. If the movie is referencing ASM 121 and (or) ASM 91, it still refers to the death of a Stacy, and neither has anything to do with Mysterio, Harry or Flash. My Kindred prediction has been a Stacy and Arthur being my primary suspect, because he is male. I will say that as far as I know, Gwen never did anything so bad that she deserved to go to Hell. Does it make her perfect? No her treatment of Aunt May was awful (Sam Bullet and being against Spider-Man can be excused because she was upset at her dad's death). The only way I see it being her is if the Gwen Story shows her doing something bad we are unaware of ( sort of like what was done in Sins Past) but having her as a murderer or something.

The movie is definitely referencing Gwen's death, maybe George's death is included too, but so far, by the lines of that actor, it's just Gwen's.

And Harry is indirectly involved in Gwen's death, since it was his health being fucked over because of the drugs that made Norman remember everything and become Green Goblin again.

Mysterio, while he wasn't there when Gwen died, her death seems to be a well known thing, plus he claims to know Spidey's secrets, so he could know more than usual about her death.

Either way, yeah, Gwen being in hell is the biggest counter on why she couldn't be Kindred yeah, we'd need somne weird retcon, either that or Mephisto or someone else targeted her for, reasons lol.

Arthur though, did he even die at any point? Because whoever Kindred is, he needs to have died before Mysterio's return in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man 11~13, though I think Arthur disapeared for a few years before that, maybe he died off-screen? Lol

[Rosebunse]

Honestly, I wasn't too for Gwen being Kindred, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

I mean, a major, major criticism of her death is how it isn't her story. No, the story belongs to Peter, to MJ, to Harry and Norman. A young woman's life is taken away and it isn't even about her. And with that in mind, I can see how her own hatred and grief could twist her into something monstrous, especially if Mephisto is involved and there to twist the knife.

[RD155]

I feel like whoever it ends up being, with Harry and Gwen being most obvious choices (still mostly leaning towards Harry personally), I don't think it's going to be as simple as it just being them completely.

My theory is, in reference to the first arc of this run, in which we saw Peter and Spider-Man as split into two different entities, Kindred will be the other half of said person. That's how you get through Harry being around since BND, and the Gwen from Clone Conspiracy (which we know is the original soul of her). They would technically still be the originals, just the "good halves", like Peter was, while Kindred is the negatively emotional piece of soul remaining of either Harry or Gwen (Harry you could say it's his Goblin persona taken form, while Gwen could be all of her pent up hate and anger taken physical manifestation).

The reason I still think Harry is the most likely is that his conversation with Osborn just seems to fit slightly more towards Harry's personal feelings and beliefs than Gwen's (not to mention Harry's just odd disappearance despite the supposed importance of his son in that story). Also, as Back To Basics shown with Kraven, sometimes an obvious foreshadowing turns out to be exactly what we think.

True. Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one but damn Spencer has really spent a while building this up. I’m assuming we won’t get a reveal til possibility summer of next year or so. I just can’t see Spencer making it that obvious. Spencer whether fair or not is going to have his whole run defined by this Kindred reveal because Of the importance and length it’s going to go for. He has to knock this one out of the park.....That’s the reason why I’m hesitant on the “obvious” choice being the correct one in this instance.

[exile001]

Flash doesn't make sense because he died way after Mysterio was already resurrected, whoever Kindred is, needs to have died before Mysterio came back.

Uncle Ben, you'd need retcons to establish that he has a connection with Norman, even then, there's Norman talking with Kindred and he says that Kindred is part of Norman's legacy, and that he's proud of Kindred, there are few characters who fit this, Harry (And Norman would need to suddenly be proud of him) and Gwen (Not proud of her as a person, he's proud of having killed her to make Spidey suffer), maybe there's someone else, but those two are the most obvious.

Honestly, after ASM#31, I stopped believing it could be Harry, it was too obvious, I mildly considered Gwen, but I just wasn't sure, mostly because Kindred is showing a lot of hatred for Peter, and Gwen loved Peter, but hated Spider-Man, it's hard to say which one between love and hate would triumph if she learned his secret identity (And Gwen's clone from Clone Conspiracy showed it was love), but I was thinking that she wouldn't become someone who's killing innocents even when hating Peter, but with Gwen getting a mini now, maybe they did that simply because she's one of Spidey's 3 big love interests, and Felicia and MJ got it, so maybe it's her turn just because, or maybe it's because of Spider-Gwen, or both, but I'm seriously considering that this mini is going to be a stealth prequel to explain how she becomes Kindred, either that or the timing of this is a huge coincidence lol.

He only needs to have died before Mysterio if Hell's timeline is the same as Earth's, which makes no sense as the point of Hell is that it is eternal. It is an out there guess, don't get me wrong, but still a possibility.

Uncle Ben is subject to a retcon pretty much every time he shows up, as all we had was a few panels before he died. Everything we've sen after that has been to flesh out his character/history. Again, a long shot that I very much hope is not the case.

Harry isn't dead, and in current continuity never died. So it could be the original timeline Harry, otherwise he doesn't really fit. And as you say, he would be too obvious.

Gwen seems the clearest choice from the group, but I hope not. IMO, Gwen needs to be left alone.

It could be Ned Leeds, he fits the most of the criteria and was on the periphery of the old gang back in the early days. Spencer did make the strange choice to bring back and kill off the clone, so that may have been to put Ned back in our minds. And the explanation could be that he is still messed up from Kingsley's brainwashing.

I am pretty interested in the whole mystery, so looking forward to the reveal.

[exile001]

I feel like whoever it ends up being, with Harry and Gwen being most obvious choices (still mostly leaning towards Harry personally), I don't think it's going to be as simple as it just being them completely.

My theory is, in reference to the first arc of this run, in which we saw Peter and Spider-Man as split into two different entities, Kindred will be the other half of said person. That's how you get through Harry being around since BND, and the Gwen from Clone Conspiracy (which we know is the original soul of her). They would technically still be the originals, just the "good halves", like Peter was, while Kindred is the negatively emotional piece of soul remaining of either Harry or Gwen (Harry you could say it's his Goblin persona taken form, while Gwen could be all of her pent up hate and anger taken physical manifestation).

Interesting idea, like, it could be Harry's Green Goblin persona while the rest of Harry was resurrected (or just didn't die) due to OMD.

[Hugo Strange]

Interesting idea, like, it could be Harry's Green Goblin persona while the rest of Harry was resurrected (or just didn't die) due to OMD.

Dual personality being dual soul?! I already saw this somewhere...

[SuperiorIronman]

What if Gwen was involved, it's just not her? Perhaps being somebody Gwen had interacted with? That would narrow the search down immensely given it would have to be somebody Gwen met before she died.

A reveal in Gwen outside of ASM where the mystery is actually relevant and where most of your readers are would be stupid (that is what you would put in for an overpriced "special"). But what if they setup Gwen as a suspect only for ASM to reveal it as someone else with Gwen showing us context from Gwen's perspective. That way it isn't spoiled for anybody who isn't reading Gwen's mini and providing further information on who Kindred is or showing how it happened.

[Lukmendes]

Y'know, I've been wondering, and maybe another character worth considering to be Kindred is Miles Warren.

Perhaps the ones we see nowadays are his clones, the original died, maybe in either clone saga, and he has been in hell ever since.

Of course, it's a stretch in some ways, like how Norman would consider him to be part of his legacy, or even be proud of him, but maybe this is still worth considering.