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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Welp... there goes my hope of someone retconing away the recent Scarlet Spider series (this coming from a huge PAD fan.)
    retcons are like dessert for marvel, there’s always room for more
    Last edited by boots; 06-29-2019 at 03:41 AM. Reason: you know why
    troo fan or death

  2. #77
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    Judas Traveller.

  3. #78

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    I don't want to see this as the answer, but I'd like to see Peter get worried that Kindred is his soul from Amazing Spider-Man #700.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawidos View Post
    Nice to meet you. I'm new to this forum communisty. I would like to present my theory regarding Kindred identity. Sorry in advance for my English. I'm not a native speaker.

    Anyway my theory is that Kindred is Peter Parker, or to be more specific a fragment of his soul. It should be noted that One More Day did not only take away Spider-Man's marriage, it also made damage to his soul. Below there is a quote of Mephisto from the ending of Sensational Spider-Man #41.

    You will not consciously remember this bargain or this moment or the life you lived to this point. But there will be a VERY SMALL PART OF YOUR SOUL that will remember that and will know what you lost. And my joy will be listening to THIS PART OF YOUR SOUL screaming throughout eternity.

    So the problem is that soul of Peter Parker and soul of Mary Jane Watson on Earth are not in agony. But there are - I mean probably in HELL - small fragment of their souls which remember their lost of love and are tormenting over and over again to the pleasure of Mephisto. So let's call this part of Parker's soul - Hell Parker and let's look over this deal from his perspective.

    He is in Hell. He lost his pure love. He is in agony, but morever he sees a part of Mary Jane soul (let's call her Hell MJ) there too. She is in agony too. But he can't help her, because that was the deal - they can't rejoin in this hellish afterlife, they can't bring relief to each other. They are on this same place, they love eatch other, but they can't be together. That's their daily torment. Maybe this Hell MJ is a tiny percentage of MJ's soul from Earth, but for Hell Parker this Hell MJ is his whole world. And he sees this Parker living on Earth who does not remember this horrible deal and does not know about their suffering. So he starts hating this guy and a view of his suffering Hell MJ brings madness to his mind and makes him craving for revenge.

    Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #24: I take no joy in killing someone like this. Don't let the bandages fool you. I'm not a monster but unfortunately. It was a necessity. [...] I'm not ready for you to know who I am. Not yet. You still gotta guess my name. Because once you do, Peter, it'll just be me and you. Like it SHOULD'VE BEEN ALL ALONG. Then we can face the truth together. The truth of what you did.

    So what does Hell Parker do? He decides to get out of hell and save his Hell MJ.

    Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #23: You see I don't want to hurt her. I tould I'd protect her and I mean it. I'm trying to protect her from the greatest threat she faces after all. You. It's always you, Pete.

    But how he can do it? By changing his status quo. A prisoner becomes a guard. A victim becomes a bully.

    The psychiatrist of Mysterio recalled in Amazing Spider-Man #24: While you were there, you were tortured endlessly by a man - another prisoner of hell who had climbed the ranks to become a demon himself.

    But how is he able to make such a career? By making a new deal with Mephisto. I'm not sure about specifics of this deal. Maybe it can be summarized like that - free Hell MJ and I will bring the rest of me (the rest of Parker's soul) to hell. In One More Day Mephisto wasn't interested in Parker's soul, because it would be a soul who would sacrifice itself for somebody else, so its suffering would be holy in nature.

    Probably Hell Parker must find some kind loophole (like in the Lost Tv series) to bring whole Parker's soul to hell. Maybe find a way to make him do a deed which will condemn his soul. He probably can't kill him outright, because Mephisto would not get what he wants. (Parker's soul would go to Heaven in this case).

    By becoming demon Hell Parker was imbued with supernatural abilites like raising dead (Mysterio case). Talking with Mysterio in Amazing Spider-Man #1 he said he could go back to hell, so he is still connected with this realm. Did you notice than while the psychiatrist in Amazing Spider-Man #24 was asking about his name, Mysterio couldn't speak it loudly but we, readers were shown panels with sweating Parker in bed.

    By the way, Kindred can send visions to Parker's head, because he is a part of his soul. He knows villains like Mysterio and Kinpgin, because he has Peter memories. It's not suprise he liked torturing Mysterio, cause he remembers what pain in the ass they were while he was fighting them as Spider-Man.

    Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #1: "His secrets are no use to me. I know Pete better that he knows himself." If he is a part of his soul, this is obviously true, besides he knows about the deal with Mephisto, so he has more knowledge.

    And Kindred said to Mendell Stromm in The Amazing Spider-Man #4 about himself: "I'm someone who knows what it's like to live in another man's shadow." By living in hell forgotten by the soul you comes from can be compared to living in somebody's shadow.

    In Amazing Spider-Man #10 he was angry when he saw that Parker had revelead his secret identity to Black Cat. After this revelation Felicia mind was bombarded with lost memories. Kindred commented that she (Felicia) didn't deserve that (so he has some feelings for her) and that Peter was dragging more and more people into Peter's hell.

    His nickname. Why Kindred? I think in your language this word is similar to such words as close, relative, brotherly. You use a phrase - kindred spirit. If he is a part of Parker's soul, he can call himself kindred.

    Why bandages? To conceal his identity, of course. Being so long in Hell will corrupt your looks, that's for sure. Kindred chose to become a demon, so he looks like one of them. I think we can compare him and his nature to Horcrux, a fragment od Lord Voldemort's soul from Harry Potter series. These fragments were pretty nasty beings.

    Why centipede? Well, in our houses we can encounter so called house centipede. Wikipedia says that house centipedes feed (yup) on spiders and other arachnids. So Kindred sees himself as a destroyer/devourer of Parker. And he hates Spider-Man identity, because honestly speaking, Parker actions as Spider-Man make a miserable life fo Kindred and his Hell MJ.

    The only paradox is Mysterio case. Beck commited suicide before One More Day. So how Hell Parker can be his tormentor if he was "born" after the deal Mephisto? But we can assume that Mephisto messed with timestream, so Hell Parker came into existence during the unsuccessful wedding of Parker and Watson. And that events took place before Mysterio suicide. The next question is why Kindred didn't kill Kingpin if Fisk were responsible for shooting Aunt May which resulted in the deal with Mephisto. Firstly, he blames Peter the most. Secondly, he probably can't mess with timestream, because he was born as a result of the deal with Mephisto.

    And the conclusion. Mysterio screamed in Amazing Spider-Man #1: One Last Chance. Maybe this will be the title of the final part of One More Day storyline. Maybe Marvel is going to retcon One More Day not by restoring marriage de jure (wedding etc), but by restoring Parker and Watson's souls. Spider-Man can never be a victor, if his part of soul is in the possesion of devil. Even if it's a very tiny fragment, his soul is still damned.

    What do you think?
    I would honestly hope not.

  5. #80
    Fantastic Member Hugo Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawidos View Post
    Nice to meet you. I'm new to this forum communisty. I would like to present my theory regarding Kindred identity. Sorry in advance for my English. I'm not a native speaker.

    Anyway my theory is that Kindred is Peter Parker, or to be more specific a fragment of his soul. It should be noted that One More Day did not only take away Spider-Man's marriage, it also made damage to his soul. Below there is a quote of Mephisto from the ending of Sensational Spider-Man #41.

    You will not consciously remember this bargain or this moment or the life you lived to this point. But there will be a VERY SMALL PART OF YOUR SOUL that will remember that and will know what you lost. And my joy will be listening to THIS PART OF YOUR SOUL screaming throughout eternity.

    So the problem is that soul of Peter Parker and soul of Mary Jane Watson on Earth are not in agony. But there are - I mean probably in HELL - small fragment of their souls which remember their lost of love and are tormenting over and over again to the pleasure of Mephisto. So let's call this part of Parker's soul - Hell Parker and let's look over this deal from his perspective.

    He is in Hell. He lost his pure love. He is in agony, but morever he sees a part of Mary Jane soul (let's call her Hell MJ) there too. She is in agony too. But he can't help her, because that was the deal - they can't rejoin in this hellish afterlife, they can't bring relief to each other. They are on this same place, they love eatch other, but they can't be together. That's their daily torment. Maybe this Hell MJ is a tiny percentage of MJ's soul from Earth, but for Hell Parker this Hell MJ is his whole world. And he sees this Parker living on Earth who does not remember this horrible deal and does not know about their suffering. So he starts hating this guy and a view of his suffering Hell MJ brings madness to his mind and makes him craving for revenge.

    Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #24: I take no joy in killing someone like this. Don't let the bandages fool you. I'm not a monster but unfortunately. It was a necessity. [...] I'm not ready for you to know who I am. Not yet. You still gotta guess my name. Because once you do, Peter, it'll just be me and you. Like it SHOULD'VE BEEN ALL ALONG. Then we can face the truth together. The truth of what you did.

    So what does Hell Parker do? He decides to get out of hell and save his Hell MJ.

    Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #23: You see I don't want to hurt her. I tould I'd protect her and I mean it. I'm trying to protect her from the greatest threat she faces after all. You. It's always you, Pete.

    But how he can do it? By changing his status quo. A prisoner becomes a guard. A victim becomes a bully.

    The psychiatrist of Mysterio recalled in Amazing Spider-Man #24: While you were there, you were tortured endlessly by a man - another prisoner of hell who had climbed the ranks to become a demon himself.

    But how is he able to make such a career? By making a new deal with Mephisto. I'm not sure about specifics of this deal. Maybe it can be summarized like that - free Hell MJ and I will bring the rest of me (the rest of Parker's soul) to hell. In One More Day Mephisto wasn't interested in Parker's soul, because it would be a soul who would sacrifice itself for somebody else, so its suffering would be holy in nature.

    Probably Hell Parker must find some kind loophole (like in the Lost Tv series) to bring whole Parker's soul to hell. Maybe find a way to make him do a deed which will condemn his soul. He probably can't kill him outright, because Mephisto would not get what he wants. (Parker's soul would go to Heaven in this case).

    By becoming demon Hell Parker was imbued with supernatural abilites like raising dead (Mysterio case). Talking with Mysterio in Amazing Spider-Man #1 he said he could go back to hell, so he is still connected with this realm. Did you notice than while the psychiatrist in Amazing Spider-Man #24 was asking about his name, Mysterio couldn't speak it loudly but we, readers were shown panels with sweating Parker in bed.

    By the way, Kindred can send visions to Parker's head, because he is a part of his soul. He knows villains like Mysterio and Kinpgin, because he has Peter memories. It's not suprise he liked torturing Mysterio, cause he remembers what pain in the ass they were while he was fighting them as Spider-Man.

    Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #1: "His secrets are no use to me. I know Pete better that he knows himself." If he is a part of his soul, this is obviously true, besides he knows about the deal with Mephisto, so he has more knowledge.

    And Kindred said to Mendell Stromm in The Amazing Spider-Man #4 about himself: "I'm someone who knows what it's like to live in another man's shadow." By living in hell forgotten by the soul you comes from can be compared to living in somebody's shadow.

    In Amazing Spider-Man #10 he was angry when he saw that Parker had revelead his secret identity to Black Cat. After this revelation Felicia mind was bombarded with lost memories. Kindred commented that she (Felicia) didn't deserve that (so he has some feelings for her) and that Peter was dragging more and more people into Peter's hell.

    His nickname. Why Kindred? I think in your language this word is similar to such words as close, relative, brotherly. You use a phrase - kindred spirit. If he is a part of Parker's soul, he can call himself kindred.

    Why bandages? To conceal his identity, of course. Being so long in Hell will corrupt your looks, that's for sure. Kindred chose to become a demon, so he looks like one of them. I think we can compare him and his nature to Horcrux, a fragment od Lord Voldemort's soul from Harry Potter series. These fragments were pretty nasty beings.

    Why centipede? Well, in our houses we can encounter so called house centipede. Wikipedia says that house centipedes feed (yup) on spiders and other arachnids. So Kindred sees himself as a destroyer/devourer of Parker. And he hates Spider-Man identity, because honestly speaking, Parker actions as Spider-Man make a miserable life fo Kindred and his Hell MJ.

    The only paradox is Mysterio case. Beck commited suicide before One More Day. So how Hell Parker can be his tormentor if he was "born" after the deal Mephisto? But we can assume that Mephisto messed with timestream, so Hell Parker came into existence during the unsuccessful wedding of Parker and Watson. And that events took place before Mysterio suicide. The next question is why Kindred didn't kill Kingpin if Fisk were responsible for shooting Aunt May which resulted in the deal with Mephisto. Firstly, he blames Peter the most. Secondly, he probably can't mess with timestream, because he was born as a result of the deal with Mephisto.

    And the conclusion. Mysterio screamed in Amazing Spider-Man #1: One Last Chance. Maybe this will be the title of the final part of One More Day storyline. Maybe Marvel is going to retcon One More Day not by restoring marriage de jure (wedding etc), but by restoring Parker and Watson's souls. Spider-Man can never be a victor, if his part of soul is in the possesion of devil. Even if it's a very tiny fragment, his soul is still damned.

    What do you think?
    Very good one, congratulations. Mysterio probably worked directly for Mephisto in the FNSM story arc (#11-13), before the pact. Maybe Kindred is Peter and MJ's halves combined, so it could be man and woman at the same time (Carlie, a woman who is very similar to Peter Parker?)
    Last edited by Hugo Strange; 06-29-2019 at 07:04 AM.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Strange View Post
    Very good one, congratulations. Mysterio probably worked directly for Mephisto in the FNSM story arc (#11-13), before the pact. Maybe Kindred is Peter and MJ's halves combined, so it could be man and woman at the same time (Carlie, a woman who is very similar to Peter Parker?)
    I agree that post is the most I've come to believe the "Kindred is pre-OMD Peter" theory. Him already existing before OMD is something that was always the big hurdle for me, but mentioning how he could have been created/manifesting as a result of the wedding not happening, is a clever point.

    Kindred being Carlie would be incredibly interesting, especially if they go with her being it from the literal beginning, though that would require alot of explaining and working around to say why exactly she did everything since BND till now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Welp... there goes my hope of someone retconing away the recent Scarlet Spider series (this coming from a huge PAD fan.)
    To be fair, Spider-Geddon already kind of retconned some elements from the Scarlet Spider series (namely the ending), and I thought both series definitively saying that the souls in the clone bodies were the original helps to make things a bit more understandable at the very least.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Sonic The Hedgehog, Absolute Carnage, Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Gwenpool Strikes Back, Runaways, The White Trees

  7. #82
    Fantastic Member Hugo Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    To be fair, Spider-Geddon already kind of retconned some elements from the Scarlet Spider series (namely the ending), and I thought both series definitively saying that the souls in the clone bodies were the original helps to make things a bit more understandable at the very least.
    That was confirmed by Nick Spencer in Hunted too (Billy Connors' soul in the cloned body).

  8. #83
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Dawidos's theory reminds me of Savitar from The Flash TV series ultimately turning out to be a rogue "time remnant" (a time travel-created doppelganger of a speedster) of Barry Allen from the future, driven insane by both the death of Iris West and the rejection of everyone he knew for not being the "real" Barry and out to destroy Barry in every way possible, even to the point of trying to ensure the very tragedy that led to his existence in the first place. Considering how it was observed in the original finale of Superior Spider-Man by Otto Octavius that Peter Parker is so often his own worst enemy without even knowing it, this theory would make that extremely literal if it turned out to be accurate.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #84

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    I'd wager that Kindred is Gwen Stacy... Not that I have any evidence to support this, I just think it'd be a good twist.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sкєʟʟує View Post
    I'd wager that Kindred is Gwen Stacy... Not that I have any evidence to support this, I just think it'd be a good twist.
    Kindred being Gwen ( or Jill as a blonde) works for me. The perfect ending to that would be Ghost Spider Gwen defeating her ( it would also make a nice 616 intro for her).

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Kindred (noun): one's family and relations

    It's gotta be the only Peter clone that never established his own identity -- someone that only exists in his relationship to others.

    -Pav, who knew Spidercide would be back eventually...
    I imagine the name is being used more in the sense of "kindred spirits". Someone who identifies with Peter.

    (I'm really not joking that I think it could be a real-world fanboy a la Gwenpool.)

  12. #87
    Fantastic Member Hugo Strange's Avatar
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    I think it's a Peter's ex-girlfriend for the same reason.

  13. #88
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    That's a hell of a theory, pun intended

  14. #89
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Kindred is the Headmaster of Morning Glories Academy. This Spidey run is the bridge between that book and the planned relaunch. Spencer is a genius.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    That's what I have over Beelzebub now, Honoka-chan. He thinks he's a third-year school idol. I know what I am. And in this fight-- that makes me INVINCIBLE!

  15. #90
    Mighty Member norj's Avatar
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    I think he's Peter's Mummudrai, a physic entity born on th astral plane that is the opposite of a specific person in the material world.

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