Kindred Speculation

[Dasklein83]

Nice to meet you. I'm new to this forum communisty. I would like to present my theory regarding Kindred identity. Sorry in advance for my English. I'm not a native speaker.

Anyway my theory is that Kindred is Peter Parker, or to be more specific a fragment of his soul. It should be noted that One More Day did not only take away Spider-Man's marriage, it also made damage to his soul. Below there is a quote of Mephisto from the ending of Sensational Spider-Man #41.

You will not consciously remember this bargain or this moment or the life you lived to this point. But there will be a VERY SMALL PART OF YOUR SOUL that will remember that and will know what you lost. And my joy will be listening to THIS PART OF YOUR SOUL screaming throughout eternity.

So the problem is that soul of Peter Parker and soul of Mary Jane Watson on Earth are not in agony. But there are - I mean probably in HELL - small fragment of their souls which remember their lost of love and are tormenting over and over again to the pleasure of Mephisto. So let's call this part of Parker's soul - Hell Parker and let's look over this deal from his perspective.

He is in Hell. He lost his pure love. He is in agony, but morever he sees a part of Mary Jane soul (let's call her Hell MJ) there too. She is in agony too. But he can't help her, because that was the deal - they can't rejoin in this hellish afterlife, they can't bring relief to each other. They are on this same place, they love eatch other, but they can't be together. That's their daily torment. Maybe this Hell MJ is a tiny percentage of MJ's soul from Earth, but for Hell Parker this Hell MJ is his whole world. And he sees this Parker living on Earth who does not remember this horrible deal and does not know about their suffering. So he starts hating this guy and a view of his suffering Hell MJ brings madness to his mind and makes him craving for revenge.

Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #24: I take no joy in killing someone like this. Don't let the bandages fool you. I'm not a monster but unfortunately. It was a necessity. [...] I'm not ready for you to know who I am. Not yet. You still gotta guess my name. Because once you do, Peter, it'll just be me and you. Like it SHOULD'VE BEEN ALL ALONG. Then we can face the truth together. The truth of what you did.

So what does Hell Parker do? He decides to get out of hell and save his Hell MJ.

Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #23: You see I don't want to hurt her. I tould I'd protect her and I mean it. I'm trying to protect her from the greatest threat she faces after all. You. It's always you, Pete.

But how he can do it? By changing his status quo. A prisoner becomes a guard. A victim becomes a bully.

The psychiatrist of Mysterio recalled in Amazing Spider-Man #24: While you were there, you were tortured endlessly by a man - another prisoner of hell who had climbed the ranks to become a demon himself.

But how is he able to make such a career? By making a new deal with Mephisto. I'm not sure about specifics of this deal. Maybe it can be summarized like that - free Hell MJ and I will bring the rest of me (the rest of Parker's soul) to hell. In One More Day Mephisto wasn't interested in Parker's soul, because it would be a soul who would sacrifice itself for somebody else, so its suffering would be holy in nature.

Probably Hell Parker must find some kind loophole (like in the Lost Tv series) to bring whole Parker's soul to hell. Maybe find a way to make him do a deed which will condemn his soul. He probably can't kill him outright, because Mephisto would not get what he wants. (Parker's soul would go to Heaven in this case).

By becoming demon Hell Parker was imbued with supernatural abilites like raising dead (Mysterio case). Talking with Mysterio in Amazing Spider-Man #1 he said he could go back to hell, so he is still connected with this realm. Did you notice than while the psychiatrist in Amazing Spider-Man #24 was asking about his name, Mysterio couldn't speak it loudly but we, readers were shown panels with sweating Parker in bed.

By the way, Kindred can send visions to Parker's head, because he is a part of his soul. He knows villains like Mysterio and Kinpgin, because he has Peter memories. It's not suprise he liked torturing Mysterio, cause he remembers what pain in the ass they were while he was fighting them as Spider-Man.

Kindred said in Amazing Spider-Man #1: "His secrets are no use to me. I know Pete better that he knows himself." If he is a part of his soul, this is obviously true, besides he knows about the deal with Mephisto, so he has more knowledge.

And Kindred said to Mendell Stromm in The Amazing Spider-Man #4 about himself: "I'm someone who knows what it's like to live in another man's shadow." By living in hell forgotten by the soul you comes from can be compared to living in somebody's shadow.

In Amazing Spider-Man #10 he was angry when he saw that Parker had revelead his secret identity to Black Cat. After this revelation Felicia mind was bombarded with lost memories. Kindred commented that she (Felicia) didn't deserve that (so he has some feelings for her) and that Peter was dragging more and more people into Peter's hell.

His nickname. Why Kindred? I think in your language this word is similar to such words as close, relative, brotherly. You use a phrase - kindred spirit. If he is a part of Parker's soul, he can call himself kindred.

Why bandages? To conceal his identity, of course. Being so long in Hell will corrupt your looks, that's for sure. Kindred chose to become a demon, so he looks like one of them. I think we can compare him and his nature to Horcrux, a fragment od Lord Voldemort's soul from Harry Potter series. These fragments were pretty nasty beings.

Why centipede? Well, in our houses we can encounter so called house centipede. Wikipedia says that house centipedes feed (yup) on spiders and other arachnids. So Kindred sees himself as a destroyer/devourer of Parker. And he hates Spider-Man identity, because honestly speaking, Parker actions as Spider-Man make a miserable life fo Kindred and his Hell MJ.

The only paradox is Mysterio case. Beck commited suicide before One More Day. So how Hell Parker can be his tormentor if he was "born" after the deal Mephisto? But we can assume that Mephisto messed with timestream, so Hell Parker came into existence during the unsuccessful wedding of Parker and Watson. And that events took place before Mysterio suicide. The next question is why Kindred didn't kill Kingpin if Fisk were responsible for shooting Aunt May which resulted in the deal with Mephisto. Firstly, he blames Peter the most. Secondly, he probably can't mess with timestream, because he was born as a result of the deal with Mephisto.

And the conclusion. Mysterio screamed in Amazing Spider-Man #1: One Last Chance. Maybe this will be the title of the final part of One More Day storyline. Maybe Marvel is going to retcon One More Day not by restoring marriage de jure (wedding etc), but by restoring Parker and Watson's souls. Spider-Man can never be a victor, if his part of soul is in the possesion of devil. Even if it's a very tiny fragment, his soul is still damned.

What do you think?

I think this is 100% correct, and your English is great. I came to this same conclusion after reading issue 24. Spencer’s Spider-Man is the only Spider-Man I’ve read since OMD/OMIT other than Spider-Verse and the Grim Hunt, so I’ll be devestated if this isn’t the case. Spencer is far too careful a writer not to know what he’s doing, and if this isn’t the outcome, then the misdirection seeds he’s planted are just plain cruel to long time fans.

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

Based on the clues and dialogue so far, it feels like Gwen Stacy (or one of her clones) or another deceased love interest from Peter's past. Someone who blames Peter for her death and wants to "protect" MJ from him so that she doesn't share the same fate.

Or it could be a deranged clone trying to "protect" MJ from Peter ala Kaine from the 90's (Spidercide?).

I think this is 100% correct, and your English is great. I came to this same conclusion after reading issue 24. Spencer’s Spider-Man is the only Spider-Man I’ve read since OMD/OMIT other than Spider-Verse and the Grim Hunt, so I’ll be devestated if this isn’t the case. Spencer is far too careful a writer not to know what he’s doing, and if this isn’t the outcome, then the misdirection seeds he’s planted are just plain cruel to long time fans.

It's an excellent theory, but I doubt that Marvel is willing to address OMD to this degree.

[Sectal]

I love that spencer isn’t afraid to draw from the clone saga. Kindred might have his roots there

[Dasklein83]

spoilers:

That doesn't make sense. This man brought Mysterio back from before OMD. So how does that work unless it's something else?

end of spoilers

It makes since because, if Kindred is a small fraction of Pre OMD Peter's soul, then that fraction would have come into existence when Mephisto altered the timeline to prevent the wedding, i.e. when he was the bird that unlocked the car door, allowing the crook to escape.

[Dawidos]

Thank you all for your kinds words about my theory . I must say that KIndred being an old loved one from Parker's life is interesting, but I can't see why somebody like Gwen Stacy landed in Hell. Maybe for her adultery (affair with Norman Osborn). Just kidding.

Dasklein83, exacly. I believe the events of One Moment In Time is the period when Kindred (part of Parker's soul) came into existence in Hell. We must remember what was the gain of Mephisto stricking the deal with Spider-Man. Marriage annulation (fact that Peter and MJ never married) was a reward for Marvel editors (Quesada and company). But for Mephisto legal matters have no value. He must have a fragment of Parker's soul screaming because of lost love. I he hasn't got it, then he gained nothing from this deal.

Let's analyse this quote

I'm not ready for you to know who I am. Not yet. You still gotta guess my name. Because once you do, Peter, it'll just be me and you. Like it SHOULD'VE BEEN ALL ALONG. Then we can face the truth together. The truth of what you did.

I'm not ready for you to know who I am - some kind of rules. Kindred often spoke about game rules. I think that although he is a demon, he still wasn't given free reins. He can't do everything he wants. He must follow rules.

You still gotta guess my name. - this will be a challenge for Parker, because if somebody asked "guess my name", you would be looking a correct answer, reminding yourself names of your friends, loved ones and enemies. But the answer is right under youse nose. It's your name. It's you. That's easy and hard as well. That's obvious and suprising as well. That's liberating and frightening as wel..

Because once you do, Peter, it'll just be me and you. - me and you. When you find the truth, you will realise you can't escape from me. I exist because you exist.

Like it SHOULD'VE BEEN ALL ALONG - we should have never been separated. We should be unity. Your soul should have never been tarnished and split apart. It should have been intact and pure.

Then we can face the truth together. - I know the truth about your deal, but you don't remember that. I'll make you remember, then we will both know the truth. For you it will be mental earthquake.

The truth of what you did - you sold a part of your soul, you brought me to this world, your destroyed your life and made my new-born life already a living hell

We must remember that the new volume of Amazing Spider-Man opened with a beatiful scene from Sensational Spider-Man Annual #1. In the first issue, there was a panel where we could see MJ's finger without wedding ring. I want to believe there is more than meets the eye - like Optimus Prime said .

Although I believe in my theory, I must confess that I share some doubts of Scarlet Spider. Marvel has failed us so many times to retcon OMD at least to some degree, that it's hard to believe they will adress this story so widely. But we must have faith. if Kindred is Carlie, Spider-Clone, alternative Osborn or anybody, it will be ok, but nothing special. If he is Peter, it will be something new. The most challenging, the worst enemy. YOU. Why? Because how can you fight yourself? So Marvel, please have cojones. Save Spider-Man's soul. Now or never.

BTW: Let's not forget that adressing OMD, of course in a sense of fixing this mess, would be a good move from financial Perspective. Marvel may be inspired by the buzz caused by wedding of Batman and Catwoman in DC Comics. This wedding was unsuccessful, but the comic book sold very well. Teasing maybe a new wedding of Spider-Man would be a effective marketing tool, even if something prevented it from happening in the end. But please. At least free Parker and MJ souls.

[Mister Mets]

I'm guessing Kindred's got nothing to do with One More Day, largely for some meta reasons. I don't know if they want to pull that scab, or to make a particular statement about a controversial story.

Spencer's also been open about getting the okay to reunite Peter & MJ relatively late in the process of coming up with the stories, after he had written the first draft of the Issue One script, so it would be unusual if he had planned a Big Bad with ties to One More Day, but didn't know that he could reunite Peter & MJ.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c927347c8084

When Nick Spencer turned in the first draft of his debut issue of a new “The Amazing Spider-Man” series for Marvel Comics, everyone at Marvel loved it. Everyone, that is, except Nick Spencer.

Spencer was convinced the script for his first issue of one of Marvel’s flagship titles (which debuted in print and digital last week) was missing something. A dinner conversation with Marvel Comics Chief Creative Officer Joe Quesada helped him figure out the secret ingredient he was looking for.

Spencer and Quesada met to talk all things Spider-Man as he prepared to take on the noticeable task of being the writer to come aboard “The Amazing Spider-Man” after Dan Slott’s decade-long writing run, which recently came to an end with the title’s 801st issue (the series was renumbered for Spencer’s debut with artist Ryan Ottley illustrating).

The relationship between Spider-Man/Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson came up. They were once an all-time comic book couple, but were not known as an item anymore. Slott even said during his time writing Spider-Man that fans shouldn’t expect a rekindling of any spider-flames.

Spencer, like many fans, assumed rules were in place to keep Peter Parker and Mary Jane apart. Quesada told him that was never Marvel’s intention when they decided to erase Spider-Man’s marriage to Mary Jane from continuity years ago, during the Spider-Man “One More Day” story.

“Once I had that piece of the puzzle in place, everything else came together and improved massively,” Spencer told The Washington Post’s Comic Riffs.

Suddenly, knowing Mary Jane could be a romantic part of the story made Spencer’s plans for the series “one thousand times better.”

[Hugo Strange]

I'm guessing Kindred's got nothing to do with One More Day, largely for some meta reasons. I don't know if they want to pull that scab, or to make a particular statement about a controversial story.

Spencer's also been open about getting the okay to reunite Peter & MJ relatively late in the process of coming up with the stories, after he had written the first draft of the Issue One script, so it would be unusual if he had planned a Big Bad with ties to One More Day, but didn't know that he could reunite Peter & MJ.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c927347c8084

Quesada's involvement only increases possibilities. That would explain why the Kindred storyline didn't evolve so much in this Year One (Spencer only planted the seeds during this Kraven's Year).

[Snoop Dogg]

https://www.cbr.com/amazing-spider-m...-nick-spencer/

Right now, it's all smiles and romance for Peter and MJ, but you've been dropping hints that some perhaps supernatural parties might be working to prevent their long term happiness. Of course Marvel's premier demonic entity, Mephisto, was at least partly responsible for the way their relationship ended last time. Is part of the long term story you're telling a sequel or follow up to the controversial 2007 “One More Day” arc?

In that, I'm going to have to give you a giant “no comment.” [Laughs, Cackles, Howls while petting his cat] There's a lot of mystery yet to be revealed, and a lot of details left to be filled in.

Fans have obviously been looking forward to this reunion for years, but what made you want to write Peter and MJ back together as a couple?

It was really kind of a happy accident. I had already outlined the first issue, and we all felt really good about it, but I could not shake the feeling that something was missing. So I had dinner with Joe Quesada. We were just talking about the book in general, and in a roundabout way the subject of Peter and MJ came up. So we started talking about them and Joe threw out the idea of getting them back together.


I was pleasantly surprised to hear him suggest that, and as soon as he said it I could instantly see how bringing back that relationship would improve some story threads I had set up. So, once we saw how well that plugged into our long term plans we were off to the races.

[Huntsman Spider]

I think he's Peter's Mummudrai, a physic entity born on th astral plane that is the opposite of a specific person in the material world.

Like Cassandra Nova Xavier from Grant Morrison's X-Men? That could definitely work.

[Spidey5640]

I think the answer is obvious and can't believe no one has guessed it. Think about it:

1. male
2. ambivalent towards MJ and Felicia
3. has history with a bunch of major Spidey characters - Fisk, Mysterio..
4. Obsessed with Pete
5. Believes they should have been together from the beginning..
6. Is going the long way around before revealing himself ..


Kindred can only be one person in Spidey's history.........Dan Slott

[Snoop Dogg]

I think the answer is obvious and can't believe no one has guessed it. Think about it:

1. male
2. ambivalent towards MJ and Felicia
3. has history with a bunch of major Spidey characters - Fisk, Mysterio..
4. Obsessed with Pete
5. Believes they should have been together from the beginning..
6. Is going the long way around before revealing himself ..


Kindred can only be one person in Spidey's history.........Dan Slott

this would be pretty sexy ngl

[Hugo Strange]

I think the answer is obvious and can't believe no one has guessed it. Think about it:

1. male
2. ambivalent towards MJ and Felicia
3. has history with a bunch of major Spidey characters - Fisk, Mysterio..
4. Obsessed with Pete
5. Believes they should have been together from the beginning..
6. Is going the long way around before revealing himself ..


Kindred can only be one person in Spidey's history.........Dan Slott

[boots]

has anyone even considered that kindred spelt backwards is “derdnik”?

you’re welcome

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

has anyone even considered that kindred spelt backwards is “derdnik”?

you’re welcome

It's also an anagram of "nerd kid."

[Snoop Dogg]

It's also an anagram of "nerd kid."