View Poll Results: Which was better?

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  • The Last Stand

    36 46.75%
  • Dark Phoenix

    41 53.25%
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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    This made me laugh. But the guy he stabbed was white.
    He's completely in shadow when he got stabbed. My bad. I guess I'll just have to settle for the other two black men he mangled with chains and scrap metal.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Freud's cigar, if you ask me.
    Of all the forms these shapeshifting aliens could have taken, Fox chose what they chose. They carefully planned and edited what they filmed. They though brutalizing black male forms should make for an exciting action scene.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #63
    Mighty Member jpmst17's Avatar
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    To me, this isn't even close, it's Dark Phoenix. While neither lived up to their potential, Dark Phoenix at least attempted to bring aliens and space into it. They also didn't kill off Cyclops in 10 minutes, which is crucial to the movie. X-3 was pretty much pure trash. The killing of important characters was used to push this Wolverine and Jean narrative that should have been for Scott and Jean. They also added in the cure storyline, which could be a movie all on it's own.

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Dark Phoenix not only repeats many of the same mistakes with the Pheonix
    What mistakes did it repeat in regards to the Phoenix?

  5. #65
    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I look forward to seeing what Feige does with the material, even if it's a ways out.
    If I were a bettering man, I'd say they'll skip the Jean-focused Dark Phoenix Saga entirely and adapt Avengers vs X-Men instead, thus giving them a Dark Phoenix story of their own without it feeling like a threepeat. It'd require massive reconfiguring of the story, but that's what I think they'll do, given the MCU's penchant for adapting more recent stories. And what recent story is more headline-grabbing than Avengers vs X-Men?
    What can I say but, "I love comics."

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Last Stand's main plot about the cure was actually really interesting, and Magneto was awesome in that movie, as was Kelsey Grammer as Beast. The Pheonix plot is what brought the film down - that and Juggernaut. Dark Phoenix doesn't have anything going for it. Just a boring film with boring characters.

    As pure popcorn entertainment Last Stand has Magneto attacking the convoy carrying Mystique, the Golden Gate scene, and the final action setpiece. It occasionally has some of the most well-written dialogue with Magneto's speeches and Beast talking to the president. Yeah, the Pheonix is butchered so bad it hurts, but the movie has a ton of highs. Dark Phoenix not only repeats many of the same mistakes with the Pheonix, but it lacks any standout moments or anything enjoyable.
    I say that the action in the third act beats out any action scene in the Last Stand. Also, Dark Phoenix house fight>X3 house fight.

    I remember the fighting in X3 being goofy looking.
    Last edited by The Shape; 07-02-2019 at 12:43 PM.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    What mistakes did it repeat in regards to the Phoenix?
    Mystique and Magneto in prominent roles. Neither appear in DPS.

    Jean runs off from the team after killing a teammate(or two) to Magneto. Not in DPS.

    Jean overwhelms Magneto's power without killing or seriously hurting him. Not in DPS.

    Jean wears a red coat. Not in DPS.

    Jean likes to disintegrate matter/people into dust. Not in DPS.


    Xavier's manipulation of Jean's mind is the main or primary reason for her going crazy/Dark Phoenix.
    Not in DPS, in fact he ends up helping Jean suppress the Phoenix(at least temporarily) at her house.

    Changing Jean's childhood origin.
    Jean has a great origin in the comics, with the Annie Richardson near death experience being the reason Phoenix noticed her and that Charles came to know her(at the request of her father, Professor Grey). Her parents are both still alive and she even has an older sister(with young children) at the time of the DPS.

    Those are just a few off the top that radically deviate from the source material while directly repeating what was already done in X3.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Mystique and Magneto in prominent roles. Neither appear in DPS.

    Jean runs off from the team after killing a teammate(or two) to Magneto. Not in DPS.

    Jean overwhelms Magneto's power without killing or seriously hurting him. Not in DPS.

    Jean wears a red coat. Not in DPS.

    Jean likes to disintegrate matter/people into dust. Not in DPS.


    Xavier's manipulation of Jean's mind is the main or primary reason for her going crazy/Dark Phoenix.
    Not in DPS, in fact he ends up helping Jean suppress the Phoenix(at least temporarily) at her house.

    Changing Jean's childhood origin.
    Jean has a great origin in the comics, with the Annie Richardson near death experience being the reason Phoenix noticed her and that Charles came to know her(at the request of her father, Professor Grey). Her parents are both still alive and she even has an older sister(with young children) at the time of the DPS.

    Those are just a few off the top that radically deviate from the source material while directly repeating what was already done in X3.
    I wouldn’t necessarily call some of those “mistakes”. But Mystique did not have a prominent I’m X3 and I don’t recall Jean ever facing off against Magneto in that movie either.

    I always thought the dust came from the What-If version of DPS.
    Last edited by The Shape; 07-02-2019 at 12:44 PM.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Robards, Comic Fan View Post
    If I were a bettering man, I'd say they'll skip the Jean-focused Dark Phoenix Saga entirely and adapt Avengers vs X-Men instead, thus giving them a Dark Phoenix story of their own without it feeling like a threepeat. It'd require massive reconfiguring of the story, but that's what I think they'll do, given the MCU's penchant for adapting more recent stories. And what recent story is more headline-grabbing than Avengers vs X-Men?
    Honestly, by the time the X-Men make it to the MCU screen, I don't think the Avengers will be what they are now. With Tony, Cap, Widow, and Thor all off the board(on earth), Hulk so changed, and Hawkeye retiring to Disney+, I just don't see it[AvX] being a thing. By the time phase 4 is over and Feige's ready to start the X-Men, we're already 5 years down the road. If they start the X-Men with a Giant Sized Krakoa opening, and then do another movie or two before even starting to adapt the actual Phoenix Saga first, with the Shi'Ar in full effect, the M'Krann cystal and all that, we're already talking another 10+ years from now.

    If Feige actually goes half way comics accurate, it would be so radically different(and better), than either X3 or DP that no one will care it's a 'threepeat'. Not to say there aren't plenty of other great X-Men stories to adapt(I'd love to see the Brood Saga adapted), but if Feige wanted to do his own version of the Phoenix, he easily could.
    Last edited by yogaflame; 07-02-2019 at 12:50 PM.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    I wouldn’t necessarily call some of those “mistakes”. But Mystique did not have a prominent X3 and I don’t recall Jean ever facing off against Magneto in that movie either.

    I always thought the dust came from the What-If version of DPS.
    Magneto was of course a main character in X3, and one of the best set pieces in that movie was his rescue mission to save Mystique. Also her being 'cured'/depowered was the first we saw of an important character, and her intel is what gave the US intelligence a location for Multiple Man to have his scene. She's prominent enough, whereas she is completely absent in the comics DPS.

    As for facing off against Magneto, Jean overpowers his control of the cure gun and threatens him with the needles as he is powerless to stop her in the encampment. She toys with him and this is how we know Jean is more powerful than Magneto. They expanded on this in multiple scenes in DP.

    What What If? Even if such a thing exists, I don't think random What If's count as source material for the DPS. That distinction belongs to the works of Lord Claremont alone.
    Last edited by yogaflame; 07-02-2019 at 12:49 PM.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    You know Jean doesn’t really become a villain in Dark Phoenix(that was the point of the story). So if the MCU did their own version of Jean Grey going bad it would only be for a second time, not a third.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    You know Jean doesn’t really become a villain in Dark Phoenix(that was the point of the story). So if the MCU did their own version of Jean Grey going bad it would only be for a second time, not a third.
    Jean kills Mystique, brutalizes Quicksilver, burns/injures kids in the forest party, threatens Magneto, puppets Xavier, and dementedly dis-re-and disintegrates again the aliens. She's villainous enough. Of course, if you go full Claremont DPS, toasting a whole solar system on a whim will definitely make that(and X3) look insignificant in comparison.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Magneto was of course a main character in X3, and one of the best set pieces in that movie was his rescue mission to save Mystique. Also her being 'cured'/depowered was the first we saw of an important character, and her intel is what gave the US intelligence a location for Multiple Man to have his scene. She's prominent enough, whereas she is completely absent in the comics DPS.

    As for facing off against Magneto, Jean overpowers his control of the cure gun and threatens him with the needles as he is powerless to stop her in the encampment. She toys with him and this is how we know Jean is more powerful than Magneto. They expanded on this in multiple scenes in DP.

    What What If? Even if such a thing exists, I don't think random What If's count as source material for the DPS. That distinction belongs to the works of Lord Claremont alone.
    I rewatched. She doesnít take the gun from him he lets her take control of it and then threatens him with the needles. But yeah, Magneto was helpless.

    It was in What If The Phoenix Lives. In that Jean dusts Kitty X3/DP style.



    Jean can destroy a Star so Iím sure she can dust people.

  14. #74
    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Mystique and Magneto in prominent roles. Neither appear in DPS.

    Jean runs off from the team after killing a teammate(or two) to Magneto. Not in DPS.

    Jean overwhelms Magneto's power without killing or seriously hurting him. Not in DPS.

    Jean wears a red coat. Not in DPS.

    Jean likes to disintegrate matter/people into dust. Not in DPS.


    Xavier's manipulation of Jean's mind is the main or primary reason for her going crazy/Dark Phoenix.
    Not in DPS, in fact he ends up helping Jean suppress the Phoenix(at least temporarily) at her house.

    Changing Jean's childhood origin.
    Jean has a great origin in the comics, with the Annie Richardson near death experience being the reason Phoenix noticed her and that Charles came to know her(at the request of her father, Professor Grey). Her parents are both still alive and she even has an older sister(with young children) at the time of the DPS.

    Those are just a few off the top that radically deviate from the source material while directly repeating what was already done in X3.
    It sounds to me less that your issue is less that Dark Phoenix "repeated" things from X3 and more that neither was as comics-accurate as you would like, which I understand. It just changes the intent of your message a bit.
    What can I say but, "I love comics."

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Jean kills Mystique, brutalizes Quicksilver, burns/injures kids in the forest party, threatens Magneto, puppets Xavier, and dementedly dis-re-and disintegrates again the aliens. She's villainous enough. Of course, if you go full Claremont DPS, toasting a whole solar system on a whim will definitely make that(and X3) look insignificant in comparison.
    The forest incident and Mystique’s death were presented as an accidents rather than Jean intentionally harming innocent people like in X3. The D’Bari were villains trying to destroy the world so her dusting them was a heroic act.

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