The Last stand vs Dark Phoenix, which was better?

[sublimeclown]

The stakes in Dark Phoenix weren't high enough?

The Phoenix turned Jean into a ticking time bomb who's a threat to both mutants and humans and we have aliens that can't be killed by human weapons (at least bullets) trying to get to Phoenix Force to purge Earth for themselves.

Sorry - I meant emotional stakes.

To the filmmakers credit Dark Phoenix was meant to be a two-parter but the studio screwed in late pre-production.

Was this ever officially confirmed? I remember Olivia Munn saying it was "like" a two-parter.

[Divine Spark]

The last stand

I can't forgive Fox for messing up a 2nd time. They shouldn't even have attempted the movie. Jean was a supporting character in Apocalypse, why should we care about her heel turn if she hasn't been properly introduced.

This is a big problem. Neither developed her particularly well, it at least in the original trilogy she was an established hero first with plenty of connections to main characters.

Because this movie wasn’t about her heel turn. It was about Jean turning way from a dark destiny, similar to Mystique in DOFP who also had only appeared in one film. Even Kinberg said it was about Jean gaining control over her destiny.

Was this ever officially confirmed? I remember Olivia Munn saying it was "like" a two-parter.

According to Deadline Hollywood:

Now, Dark Phoenix was originally planned to be two movies, we hear, and during late pre-production, the studio changed gears and said it was to be one movie. Kinberg, we hear, was flexible and rewrote. Days of Future Past erased the timeline of The Last Stand, so a rebooted story about Jean Grey was possible here. Our sources tell us that testing Dark Phoenix was a continual headache, and the feature adaptation of Chris Claremont, John Byrne, and David Cockrum’s fan-beloved Dark Phoenix Saga comic was hard to get right.

https://deadline.com/2019/06/dark-ph...hy-1202629749/

[yogaflame]

The Hulk accidentally killed people in Incredible Hulk and the Avengers(revealed in Civil War), like Jean.

MCU Frank Castle enjoys killing bad guys, like Jean.

Hulk and Punisher are often cited as monsters too.

[Divine Spark]

Hulk and Punisher are often cited as monsters too.

In-story, yes. But audiences consider them either heroes or anti-heroes rather than villains.

[yogaflame]

In-story, yes. But audiences consider them either heroes or anti-heroes rather than villains.

Jean's story in the comics is one of a hero. The Watcher says it as such in the end. But along that way, Jean showed herself to be the supreme villain. It is the overarching arc, from young hero, to supreme hero(Phoenix saves the universe from the Neutron Galaxy), through wondering and fluctuating hero(World Tour era, up and to the Proteus story), to the corrupted Black Queen(a slaver, someone who hunts humans with dogs, and revels in destruction), which crescendos into the Dark Phoenix(eater of stars, smiter of billions), the supreme villain. Her human connections, though, help her come back from that edge(she goes back home to her mother, father, and sister, she is confronted by her lover, her mentor, and her friends/teammates), but the Shi'Ar come to hold her accountable for her actions as DP. And ultimately, she holds herself accountable and does the heroic thing of destroying herself, to stop herself, who was now the greatest threat to life. She died a hero, by destroying the villain she had unleashed.

[fsger]

The Last Stand is more enjoyable.

[Lightning Rider]

Because this movie wasn’t about her heel turn. It was about Jean turning way from a dark destiny, similar to Mystique in DOFP who also had only appeared in one film. Even Kinberg said it was about Jean gaining control over her destiny.

I do get that, and that's why I overall enjoyed the film. But with this newer cast, it's also her ending. Her existence in the franchise is summed up by one moment in Apocalypse and this movie. I didn't get to know Jean enough outside of that monumental all-consuming struggle.

[Lightning Rider]

Jean's story in the comics is one of a hero. The Watcher says it as such in the end. But along that way, Jean showed herself to be the supreme villain. It is the overarching arc, from young hero, to supreme hero(Phoenix saves the universe from the Neutron Galaxy), through wondering and fluctuating hero(World Tour era, up and to the Proteus story), to the corrupted Black Queen(a slaver, someone who hunts humans with dogs, and revels in destruction), which crescendos into the Dark Phoenix(eater of stars, smiter of billions), the supreme villain. Her human connections, though, help her come back from that edge(she goes back home to her mother, father, and sister, she is confronted by her lover, her mentor, and her friends/teammates), but the Shi'Ar come to hold her accountable for her actions as DP. And ultimately, she holds herself accountable and does the heroic thing of destroying herself, to stop herself, who was now the greatest threat to life. She died a hero, by destroying the villain she had unleashed.

Well put....

[WebLurker]

Reaching? Hmm. What happened to all the black male mutants in Fox-Men's films? Both of them were literally blown up on screen. Both of them are actually un-blowupable, given their powers and the circumstances at hand, but Fox chose to graphically blow them up.

Only one was "un-blowupable" and I think that was a plot hole (much like how Captain America's shield does or does not absorb all the kinetic energy depending on what works best for the scene in question). Besides, two movies made years apart. Yeah, reaching.

I can elaborate more but the same post has my basic explanation:

Okay.

I recently watched the original trilogy back to back and was surprised to like X3 the best.

Fair enough; I think I like the first one the best, myself, which I think isn't a popular choice, either. (IMHO, I can see why X2 might be objectively the best, but I kinda think its overrated in some ways). Frankly, I don't hate Last Stand (or Origins: Wolverine, for that matter), but I do think that they are the weakest of the original batch.

The theme of the weaponized cure, Rogue struggling with her inability to touch...

Yeah, good stuff (although I think they only scratched the surface on those plots).

...Charles and Magneto's shared respect despite being adversaries...

I suppose, although there wasn't as much of that as could be wished and I do think other movies did it better.

...even the action is better.

Maybe?

I also thought Beast was spot on and a great piece of the ensemble, more so than his younger counterpart.

Beast was one of the good things, I will give you that.

Jean killing Xavier was also much more shocking and disturbing than anything Sophie's did.
[/B]

Maybe? Thing is, in Last Stand, it was a true split personality, so Jean was never in control, the other personality was (in effect, she was being mind-controlled). In Dark Phoenix, it was Jean being influenced by her new power surge and the aliens, so the stuff that she did was actually her doing it, which I think is a lot scarier.