What if National Publications never bought out All-American Publications?

[LordUltimus]

From the DC wikia:

All-American Publications is one of three American comic book companies that combined to form the modern-day DC Comics, one of the world's two largest comics publishers. Superheroes created for All-American include the original Atom, Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, and Wonder Woman, all in the 1940s Golden Age of comic books. Max Gaines, future founder of EC Comics, formed All-American Publications in 1938 after successfully seeking funding from Harry Donenfeld, CEO of both National Allied Publications (publisher of Action Comics and other titles) and sister company Detective Comics (publisher of that namesake comic book).

While All-American, at 225 Lafayette Street in Manhattan, was physically separated from DC's office space uptown at 480 Lexington Avenue, it used the informal "DC" logo on most of its covers for distribution and marketing reasons. (The DC logo at the time was also used for National's unofficial branding, capitalizing on the success of Batman in Detective Comics.) In 1944, Gaines let Liebowitz buy him out, keeping only Picture Stories from the Bible as the foundation of his own new company, EC. "Liebowitz promptly orchestrated the merger of All-American and Detective Comics into National Comics. Next he took charge of organizing National Comics, Independent News, and their affiliated firms into a single corporate entity, National Periodical Publications".

Suppose this never happened? What if All-American continued onward publishing its own material without being merged together? What would the separate companies look like?

(Let's suppose, just for the sake of argument, that neither company goes out of business and they continue publishing in some manner.)

[Broddie]

Wonder Woman would be to All-American what Superman would be and currently is to DC.

[Jim Kelly]

Bob Rozakis wrote something like this for TwoMorrows Publications. Although in his scenario, DC is the one who withers away (I think both Superman and Batman get cancelled), with Green Lantern enjoying the success that was Superman's and the Flash realizing the victories that were Batman's.

Since M.C. Gaines went on to publish E.C.--it's probable he would have used All-American for the same purpose. If he had met the same fate--heroically giving his life in a boating accident--then his son Bill would have taken over All-American and used it to publish suspense, science fiction and horror. Mind you he would have also had Wonder Woman, the Justice Society and Mutt and Jeff. And he would have had Sheldon Mayer, Julius Schwartz and Bob Kanigher--if they stayed with the company. So even if A-A had been attacked for their crime and horror comics--there would have been enough other successful titles to keep the company going as a colour comics outfit. And they might never have published MAD magazine.

[Güicho]

Wasn't their at one point real world split between Detective and All-American? Resulting in a changing of the All-Star Justice Society line up and everyone going back to their own company?

Edit:
Looking at some covers, it looks like All-Star 24-26 have an "AA" logo instead of a "DC" logo.
As do Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, All-American, Sensation...

[superduperman]

Bob Rozakis wrote something like this for TwoMorrows Publications. Although in his scenario, DC is the one who withers away (I think both Superman and Batman get cancelled), with Green Lantern enjoying the success that was Superman's and the Flash realizing the victories that were Batman's.

Since M.C. Gaines went on to publish E.C.--it's probable he would have used All-American for the same purpose. If he had met the same fate--heroically giving his life in a boating accident--then his son Bill would have taken over All-American and used it to publish suspense, science fiction and horror. Mind you he would have also had Wonder Woman, the Justice Society and Mutt and Jeff. And he would have had Sheldon Mayer, Julius Schwartz and Bob Kanigher--if they stayed with the company. So even if A-A had been attacked for their crime and horror comics--there would have been enough other successful titles to keep the company going as a colour comics outfit. And they might never have published MAD magazine.

I've heard about this before. I'd love to see it if anyone can find a link. It would be interesting to live in a world where Alan Scott is the most famous super-hero in the world while the guy who was literally the basis for the term disappears into obscurity.

[LordUltimus]

I've heard about this before. I'd love to see it if anyone can find a link. It would be interesting to live in a world where Alan Scott is the most famous super-hero in the world while the guy who was literally the basis for the term disappears into obscurity.

You can get the preview of it here. No idea if you can get the whole thing for free anywhere.

[superduperman]

You can get the preview of it here. No idea if you can get the whole thing for free anywhere.

That is awesome! I especially liked the action figures! Was worth it just for Lantern Girl!

[LordUltimus]

Without the added revenue of the merger, there might not be enough lawyer money to beat Fawcett into submission. If Fawcett survives, Captain Marvel remains the highest selling super hero for at least awhile longer. He could supplant Superman in popular consciousness leading to Christopher Reeve playing him in 1978 with Marlon Brando being Shazam and Gene Hackman being Dr. Sivana.

[Jim Kelly]

If Fawcett had continued publishing Captain Marvel, I think it's highly unlikely there would have been a Marvel Comics. Timely/Atlas might have become something else, but they wouldn't have dared use the Marvel name. But I think Timely/Atlas would have died off or been absorbed by another company, leaving Fawcett and A-A as the two powerhouses in the '60s for super-hero comics.

[LordUltimus]

If Fawcett had continued publishing Captain Marvel, I think it's highly unlikely there would have been a Marvel Comics. Timely/Atlas might have become something else, but they wouldn't have dared use the Marvel name. But I think Timely/Atlas would have died off or been absorbed by another company, leaving Fawcett and A-A as the two powerhouses in the '60s for super-hero comics.

Perhaps Fawcett buys Timely/Atlas and then rebrands themselves as Marvel Comics after their flagship character.

[Air Wave]

If Fawcett had continued publishing Captain Marvel, I think it's highly unlikely there would have been a Marvel Comics. Timely/Atlas might have become something else, but they wouldn't have dared use the Marvel name. But I think Timely/Atlas would have died off or been absorbed by another company, leaving Fawcett and A-A as the two powerhouses in the '60s for super-hero comics.

So if there's no merger and Fawcett survives, then is there no Justice League that inspires Stan Lee to create the Fantastic Four and save Marvel from obscurity anyway?

[LordUltimus]

Julius Schwartz joined All American Comics in 1944 so the Silver Age, if it happens on time, still gets Green Lantern and the Atom as we know them.

Also to remember, Martin Goodman's multi-named company(ies) had to be distributed by DC after 1956 and weren't allowed to publish more than 8-12 comics. If DC and All American are competing at the time and DC's not doing so well post-lawsuit, that could be different. They might instead want to buy out Timely and add it to their own company, bringing back Captain America, the Human Torch et al earlier to compete with those traitors at AA and their fancy new Green Lantern. Silver Age Marvel several years earlier (Lee, Kirby and Ditko are all here).

[Tony]

It might be fun to think All American can win out, but in truth Superman and Batman would no doubt still be running around and popular. Things like the Atom, Hawkman, Flash, and Green Lantern couldn't keep there popularity and dropped out of publishing. Aquaman and Green Arrow were run as backup stories and for staying in publications every month were far more popular than Flash or Green Lantern. DC still sues Fawcett over Captain Marvel no change there. Wonder Woman not kept in publication reverts to the Marston family.

I know Marvel needed DC to publish them in the early 60's if they still do so I believe Marvel has a much larger share of the comic market.

[superduperman]

It might be fun to think All American can win out, but in truth Superman and Batman would no doubt still be running around and popular. Things like the Atom, Hawkman, Flash, and Green Lantern couldn't keep there popularity and dropped out of publishing. Aquaman and Green Arrow were run as backup stories and for staying in publications every month were far more popular than Flash or Green Lantern. DC still sues Fawcett over Captain Marvel no change there. Wonder Woman not kept in publication reverts to the Marston family.

I know Marvel needed DC to publish them in the early 60's if they still do so I believe Marvel has a much larger share of the comic market.

I think an interesting question would be what if GL and Flash were run as backup features in major books the same way GA and Aquaman were? They would still survive being carried by a bigger character. What would the SA look like then? Would Marvel still come about? Would the Justice League still be a thing without rebooted versions of those two characters to prop them up?

[Tony]

I think an interesting question would be what if GL and Flash were run as backup features in major books the same way GA and Aquaman were? They would still survive being carried by a bigger character. What would the SA look like then? Would Marvel still come about? Would the Justice League still be a thing without rebooted versions of those two characters to prop them up?

It's an interesting question. Being popular I doubt Julie would have had John Broome reinvent them (Aquaman and Green Arrow were kept pretty much the same). Comics for sure lose two really great costumes, `and while Broome still probably adds the rogues, Green Lantern loses quite a bit without the Guardians. Of course this has DC buying out All-American again.