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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Exclamation Sina Grace Vents About His Marvel Tenure

    I'm surprised this doesn't have a thread already.

    Sina Grace on Writing Iceman at Marvel: “I Was Surrounded by Cowards”

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/06...ed-by-cowards/

    Sina Grace's Tumblr (he has posted a rather detailed post about his Marvel experience)

    https://sinagrace.tumblr.com/

    What does everyone think about this? I must say his story confirms things I've heard from my own insider sources regarding the general negative environment at Marvel Comics.
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-30-2019 at 05:00 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    It was probably discussed over in the X-forum, since it's mainly about an X-book. But yeah, this is pretty disappointing and definitely paints Marvel Comics in a bad light. It really makes you wonder how many times this might have happened to other books, specially ones led by LGBTQ characters. And it's sad that he probably burned his bridges with Marvel by coming forward with this, but I'm glad it's out there so people can know and, perhaps, Marvel can improve the way they treat some of its books and their creative teams.

  3. #3
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    I've been reluctant to bring up his name about other issues but I notice he does mention C.B. Cebulski as part of the problem. I wonder why this is why other talent has left Marvel the past couple of years.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    It was probably discussed over in the X-forum, since it's mainly about an X-book. But yeah, this is pretty disappointing and definitely paints Marvel Comics in a bad light. It really makes you wonder how many times this might have happened to other books, specially ones led by LGBTQ characters. And it's sad that he probably burned his bridges with Marvel by coming forward with this, but I'm glad it's out there so people can know and, perhaps, Marvel can improve the way they treat some of its books and their creative teams.
    This is so unfortunate, I'm a huge fan of Grace especially after seeing his interview on KindaFunny; he showed a real passion for Bobby.

    But it seems, this is how it will be especially for the big TWO. I mean the characters we adore are owned by multibillion dollar corporations, and ultimately it will always comes down to profits and they deemed Grace and his vision wanting.

    This is why seeing the vision of authors come to fruition is becoming rarer and rarer, I mean King was just pushed off Batman; but this isn't new look what happened to JMS when he chose to leave Thor or when DC wouldn't allow Batwoman to be married.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I'm surprised this doesn't have a thread already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    It was probably discussed over in the X-forum
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...he-s-NOT-happy

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well, that is disappointing, even if it's not exactly unexpected, unfortunately.

  7. #7
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    "Grace also says that he doesn’t view his treatment as discrimination, but rather “general ineptness,”

    It was not a discrimination problem, so I don't see why Marvel would work with a writer who don't sell well, and who talk in tumblr and twitter about every problems with his boss.
    From a business perspective, why bother with a writer who love public drama ?
    I try to improve my english, feel free to correct me by DM if you see some mistakes !

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    It was probably discussed over in the X-forum, since it's mainly about an X-book. But yeah, this is pretty disappointing and definitely paints Marvel Comics in a bad light. It really makes you wonder how many times this might have happened to other books, specially ones led by LGBTQ characters. And it's sad that he probably burned his bridges with Marvel by coming forward with this, but I'm glad it's out there so people can know and, perhaps, Marvel can improve the way they treat some of its books and their creative teams.
    I HIGHLY doubt he cares.

    This is no longer the 80-90s where Marvel and DC are rulers of the industry.

    We are seeing others step up and get movie/tv deals.

    We have books like Saga DESTROY Marvel & DC in trade sales.

    Grace has not stated anything that many others have talked about in the past.


    I wonder why this is why other talent has left Marvel the past couple of years.
    Some wanted the FREEDOM to do what they WANT with something they created. Same as the Image guys of the 90s & Milestone & Ultraverse (at first).

    Yeah doing that Marvel or Dc book can get you attention but not everyone needs it.

    Look at Coates. That is HIS name selling that book (before the movie) and getting reviews in places where Marvel is IGNORED.

    Same with some of these YA novel writers-they don't need Marvel.


    I mean the characters we adore are owned by multibillion dollar corporations, and ultimately it will always comes down to profits and they deemed Grace and his vision wanting.
    Understood but I think where creators are frustrated is being told to PANDER to certain things.

    In other words (Again) I am telling what YOU want to hear versus what you NEED to hear.

    How many racism or cop killing a person stories have we seen and it's ALWAYS a black person involved?
    How many movies/shows about killer white kids do we see and what MUSIC are they listening to? RAP.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordozone View Post
    "Grace also says that he doesn’t view his treatment as discrimination, but rather “general ineptness,”

    It was not a discrimination problem, so I don't see why Marvel would work with a writer who don't sell well, and who talk in tumblr and twitter about every problems with his boss.
    From a business perspective, why bother with a writer who love public drama ?
    Because for some companies any type of attention is GOOD attention.

    It's why you see certain folks (in all industries) KEEP getting work and others have to struggle.

    Remember Grace caught heck from a certain segment of fans. Marvel did not support him (or others). Because Marvel had no trouble letting it happen.

    Because what did it do for Marvel? Bring them attention and while it might not have helped floppy sales with some books-TRADES benefited.

    Because it was MAINLY their books being targeted. So any article about the harassment PROMOTED Marvel books. Something a lot of INDY guys did not like.

    Motor Crush, Goldie Vance, The Woods, Backstagers, Fence, Lumberjanes & Virgil did better jobs in showcasing LGBTQ than some of Marvel books. Nobody talked about them. Instead it was all about Iceman, Black Panther WOW & America.


    And if I am company-I MIGHT look into what he says. Because there might be TRUTH to it.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Understood but I think where creators are frustrated is being told to PANDER to certain things.

    In other words (Again) I am telling what YOU want to hear versus what you NEED to hear.

    How many racism or cop killing a person stories have we seen and it's ALWAYS a black person involved?
    How many movies/shows about killer white kids do we see and what MUSIC are they listening to? RAP.
    Oh, I completely agree. Most of the story beats no doubt come from up on high. This is why creator owned does so well, only the ultra successful can have their cake and eat it too (Hickman, Bendis, King, Snyder, Aaron, and Morrison). The rest end up twisting in the wind

  11. #11
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I've been reluctant to bring up his name about other issues but I notice he does mention C.B. Cebulski as part of the problem. I wonder why this is why other talent has left Marvel the past couple of years.
    I'm not sure. Talent relations is supposed to be Cebulski's specialty. He was essentially Marvel's artist talent scout for years, and had a good reputation for it still when he was appointed.

    Then again, I saw a quote the other day, which I cannot for the life of me find again, from a comics professional that called the Marvel EIC job "cursed", and that "everybody who takes that job ends up being hated". I want to say it was Priest. But, I can't find it again, so don't quote me on that.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I'm not sure. Talent relations is supposed to be Cebulski's specialty. He was essentially Marvel's artist talent scout for years, and had a good reputation for it still when he was appointed.

    Then again, I saw a quote the other day, which I cannot for the life of me find again, from a comics professional that called the Marvel EIC job "cursed", and that "everybody who takes that job ends up being hated". I want to say it was Priest. But, I can't find it again, so don't quote me on that.
    Christopher Priest said that, one of our fellow board members has it as their signature

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordozone View Post
    "Grace also says that he doesn’t view his treatment as discrimination, but rather “general ineptness,”

    It was not a discrimination problem, so I don't see why Marvel would work with a writer who don't sell well, and who talk in tumblr and twitter about every problems with his boss.
    From a business perspective, why bother with a writer who love public drama ?
    Here are some things to consider:

    1. While he says it's not a discrimination problem, he also claims that he had to go through some hardships his straight colleagues didn't, like having a low-key censorship on the promotion of his own book. Not too mention the whole ''this can't be too gay'' fearmongering which he claimed he had to face from the beginning, which is something I doubt ANY cis-het writer would have to face while writing a cis-het character. So it's questionable if there wasn't some sort of veiled discrimination involved in the way they decided to treat this specific book.

    2. Claiming that ''he doesn't sell well'' is also questionable, as he claimed the book did sell well in trades, and well, there is evidence that something about the book worked, because Marvel DID bring it back from cancellation shortly after, which is something that doesn't usually happen when titles get cancelled for low sales. If anything, his point is that he could bring in sales in a different format, but Marvel simply didn't seem to appreciate that for whatever reason.

    3. It's not that Marvel doesn't want to work with him because ''he was talking about every problem on social media''. He actually NEVER talked about any of this while he was working for Marvel and always kept things professional. Despite that, he claims they kept being shady to him and not giving him any more work, so he decided to walk away, and NOW he is explaining the reason why. So I think the real question is not why Marvel would want to work with him, but why HE would want to work with the company that treated him like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    I HIGHLY doubt he cares.

    This is no longer the 80-90s where Marvel and DC are rulers of the industry.

    We are seeing others step up and get movie/tv deals.

    We have books like Saga DESTROY Marvel & DC in trade sales.

    Grace has not stated anything that many others have talked about in the past.
    Oh, I absolutely get that. I know he has other work coming up and I wish him the best. I was talking about from my perspective, as someone who enjoyed his work and would like to see him do more within Marvel, it sucks that that is unlikely to happen now.

  14. #14

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    This article may be apropos to the discussion of corporate comic books.

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/06...rman-troubles/

    Now I understand this is DC but, I can't imagine Disney being any less "hands on" especially on a gay writer writing a gay character; especially in these current political times (in the USA).

    The big two have to cater to everybody not only in the US but around the world, having a recently outed established character like Iceman must have ruffled some feathers, and maybe the big honchos at the top tried to let it blow over and put the genie back in the bottle especially because of how Bendis introduces the character change in such a hackneyed manner and maybe in Disney's Grace's work stood in the way of that. Hence the cowardice of the top brass at Marvel
    Last edited by charliehustle415; 06-30-2019 at 08:15 PM.

  15. #15
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Christopher Priest said that, one of our fellow board members has it as their signature
    Glad to know I'm not crazy.

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